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AndalayBay

[WIPz] Unofficial Morrowind Patch

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I'm glad to hear that. A team is always better than a loner.
At PfP, "specialists" discussed fixing master-files. It’s better not to have such “masters” in the team.

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I was referring to the master file, or ESM. I have a bunch of patches to merge into it, then I’ll upload it and someone else will take over.

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> and someone else will take over.
Sorry, but I don’t believe it. Either there is a person who wants to lead, or he is not.

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9 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

I have a bunch of patches to merge into it, then I’ll upload it and someone else will take over.

Does it mean you're actually consider to leave the project?

If that's the case then I think I understand why.

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On 30/01/2020 at 12:02 PM, Lywzc said:

And which style are you choosing? PfP or USKP/USLEEP/USSEP?

What is the difference between these styles?

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Some people consider the Patch of Purists to be a modifcation rather than a game patch.

The USKP/USLEEP/USSEP is based on reported bugs in a bug tracker at AFK Mods and reported bug(s) are tested and confirmed by the USKP team.

The USKP team was formed after Kivan left the community.  He started the USKP back in 2011/2012 on a community site (not sure what happen to that site, probably defunct by now).

USKP - Unofficial Skyrim Patch

USLEEP - Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch (has all DLC - Dawnguard, Hearthfire, Dragonborn - included which USLEEP requires to work properly)

USSEP - Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch (created after Skyrim Special Edition was released in late October 2016)

Every reported bug(s) for Skyrim (both SLE and SSE) has been submitted here.

That has worked well over the years for Skyrim in which Morrowind has been lacking of for over 10 years now (it could be 15 years?).

In other words USKP, USLEEP, USSEP relies on reported bugs from people and every bug has been tested and confirmed before fixing it.

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PfP was created only as a patch of corrections, without changing the game. Half11 has now changed its mind and is now being added to the patch for game improvements.
 

Actually because of what PfP was created, everything returned to this.
 

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Would be rather ironic if a "patch for purists" turned out to be one that's doing far more than just fixing bugs.

As for the "USKP" style, I think Leo already covered it pretty well. We fix bugs, and they're all very well documented. Though we aren't a separate team from Kivan. He was actively part of that project until he disappeared midway through 2012. We simply continued on with it after he left, and provided it more organizational structure than it had in the past.

Regarding someone taking over the UMP if AndalayBay steps aside, I'm sure our team would probably be happy to pick things up and maintain them once it got to that point, but nothing has been discussed on that front yet.

Edited by Arthmoor

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My PC has died. Originally it was the cooler, but replacing the cooling paste fixed it. However the hard drive has been damaged. That drive has the UMP on it. I have been trying to fix the drive for the past few days. Hopefully I can recover it. Anyway the plan has been for me to apply the patches that have been submitted by various team members. Then I was going to give the master file to Fritz so he could apply his script fixes. My preference would be for others to take over from there as I have several months if not an entire year’s worth of work to do on Black Marsh. My original role in the UMP was to help with the master (in terms of merging patches) as I don’t know very much about Morrowind.

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I wasn’t attacking anyone and if my comment was interpreted that way, my apologies. I was referring to the change reviews. We had to go through all the changes made by Thepal and Quorn and decide if they were valid changes or not. It took a LONG LONG time and Leonardo never participated in that process. Leonardo has repeatedly reported this project as dead or suggested that it be moved to another forum and I am very tired of his comments. We could release it in its current state and that would already be a step ahead. If I could get my machine working and import all of Amenophis’ fixes, that would be a BIG step ahead and probably worthy of an initial release.

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If push comes to shove I can look into a merged patch. And, guys, lay off of Andy. She's under enough stress dealing with her broken computer and her husband's illness, which is thankfully in remission. And, Leo, your many comments about how you used to lead this project or be a member are unnecessary and quite irritating. Nobody cares, so stop mentioning it. Thanks.

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@Artmor
I meant that you blocked any of my offers on nexus.
Many complain that it is not possible to argue with you.
Unfortunately on nexus I did not hear from you weighty arguments other than Troll and the thief.
 

Half11 made its patch from "UMP v1.3.6b" from Thepal so that you could not prevent it from working.
You had bad reviews about him and his patch.
 

---
 

If the group has a desire to continue working, I suggest:
1 - put all collected patches for viewing
2 - create a list of errors found and actions on them
3 - lay out the verified corrections separately in the form of an esp file with a description, if simple, then it is possible only with a description of their corrections
 

After approval by the team, someone who is trusted should fix the corrections.
In this case, he will not have much work and will not need a fan with a lot of free time.
 

Working in one thread is not very convenient.
It should be somewhat differently everything will mix up.
 

You can take any version as the basis.
Or the old one and enter corrections with verification.
Or a new one and revise dubious corrections.
The result will be approximately the same (excess can always be deleted).
 

I would like to discuss some issues, but in a separate topic.

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Andy's already explained our process, but I'll reiterate it: we took ThePal's patch as a base and reviewed Quorn's many changes as taken from his release notes. After that was done, we looked into items that weren't touched by either author and fixed what was necessary. When the patch is released it'll include a list of every fix and change made, plus we'll have a bug report for people to submit bugs we missed or things that they don't think are bugs. I understand your concerns, ZW, but a lot of what you've mentioned has already been done and it's not like we would turn away sincere help. Right now everything that needs to be done is done aside from compiling all of the various fixes into one master file for the script changes and a release. And, no, we weren't working in one thread, we had multiple for each part of the patch. You only see one thread because this is the only one visible to the public; all of the others are only visible to team members.

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3 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

@Artmor
I meant that you blocked any of my offers on nexus.
Many complain that it is not possible to argue with you.
Unfortunately on nexus I did not hear from you weighty arguments other than Troll and the thief.
 

Half11 made its patch from "UMP v1.3.6b" from Thepal so that you could not prevent it from working.
You had bad reviews about him and his patch.
 

You made no offers to me of any kind on Nexus about anything to do with Morrowind mods. I don't know where you're getting that from. Aside from a token role here as something of a consultant, I've not done any modding in Morrowind since around 2003 or so. I was also never a part of any of the original UMP projects. So no, I never had any dealings with Thepal.

As for the "troll and thief" stuff, you know full well what those posts in GMAD were referring to and they're entirely irrelevant to this thread and this project so I don't see any useful purpose in you bringing that up.

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He apologized and asked not to arrange a dispute.
 

Regarding significance:
Some errors would not have been fixed if they had not been reported.
Sometimes a player reporting an error is more important than the one who fixed it.
 

If you add one more correction to 1000, then this will be 0.1%
And each subsequent correction is even smaller.

Therefore, I correct only those errors that I am told about.
I do mods where my work will matter more than this percentage.
 

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Leo, dude, you need to chill out.

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2 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

Leo, dude, you need to chill out.

Look, I refuse to take any shit from anyone, especially from someone who is lying and Anda is lying.  I've always said "enough is enough" to anyone in RL when I feel something is wrong and has gone too far.  Way too far and this has gone too far.

I'm sorry, I can't change who I am.

So, I take it this project I started in late July 2014 was a huge mistake from my part and if I knew this is gonna to happen I would never let TAL host it, that's for sure.

I would rather let GHF host it, but I guess it it's probably too late for me to actually enjoy a Morrowind patch, with almost every bugs fixed, that has the same structure as both UOP and USKP have had for a long time.  Probably never in my life time.

Edited by Leonardo

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I'll just stop by to say I'm happy to see that the project has been revived. If you guys would like to coordinate fixes between our projects, I'm happy to help.

I would like to correct a few things though:

On 23-1-2020 at 10:54 PM, AndalayBay said:

We did invite some of the other patch mod authors to join us, but they wanted to do their own thing.

My patch was released before getting an invite to these forums. I assumed that the project was no longer active after five years of not updating.

On 1-2-2020 at 12:31 AM, Leonardo said:

Some people consider the Patch of Purists to be a modifcation rather than a game patch.

Patch of Purists is as much as a patch as UMP/MPP are.

On 1-2-2020 at 1:19 AM, ZWolol2 said:

PfP was created only as a patch of corrections, without changing the game. Half11 has now changed its mind and is now being added to the patch for game improvements.

All I said to ZWolol is that a patch name itself doesn't necessarily prescribes what should and what should not be fixed. In many cases a discussion about the pros and cons is necessary to determine how and whenever a bug should be fixed. Patch of Purists is still quite conservative in this regard.

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Welcome to TAL, Half11. I’ll send you a PM so that you get an email notification once I’m back. I am in the process of recovering my PC now. I don’t know yet how much I’ll get back, if anything.

There’s always going to be debates when it comes to patches. There’s no way of knowing what Bethesda intended and I bet that even if we were able to ask them, they probably couldn’t tell us. :lol: We’ve even had some debates among the team.

Our process was to merge Thepal’s and Quorn’s patches, go through all the changes they made and then decide which changes to keep. In addition to that, we have a large number of fixes contributed by various team members. I don’t know Morrowind very well, so my role was to do a couple of change reviews and to look after the master file by merging the patches submitted by team members. I just finished the last change review I had claimed a couple of months ago, but real life has been hectic so I haven’t been able to upload the latest version of the master file. Then my PC died, damaging the hard drive. That’s the recovery process I mentioned. There is an old version of the master in our private file area, so I can go back to that if needed. I hope I don’t have to as I did make a number of changes since it was last uploaded.

If you could check in periodically, that would be helpful as our email notifications are often flagged as spam.

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7 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

There’s no way of knowing what Bethesda intended and I bet that even if we were able to ask them, they probably couldn’t tell us. :lol:

You might just be surprised how easy it is to get a response from them. :P

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 I was thinking more along the lines that they couldn’t remember, especially when it comes to an old game like Morrowind. I would like to ask them about the last creature question I had if you think we could get an answer. :P

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I don't see why an answer of some kind wouldn't be possible. Cartogriffi would be the one to forward the question through and he's easily accessible on the official forum or on some modding servers on Discord.

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