Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • AndalayBay

      Wikis Moving   10/08/2020

      Enodoc from the UESP has stepped up and will host our wikis in their wiki farm. I just finished uploading the backups to the UESP server. The wikis that are moving are: Better Cities Morrowind Modding Wiki TESCOSI OOO Oblivion Quest Mods Ordendesdrachen The last three are wikis that WalkerInShadows created. I never finished getting them set up on TAL, so they'll finally be available again once the UESP guys finish getting things set up.
AndalayBay

[WIPz] Unofficial Morrowind Patch

Recommended Posts

Discussion of patches, their difference and criteria for evaluating errors included in the mod correspond to the topic (other topics are not available).
Questions were answered by Arthmoor and Leonardo.

I was asked to give evidence of my words. I made two copies of the discord from an open topic (available to all for viewing).
There was no dispute (I did not participate in your disagreements), but then Half11 came and accused me of distorting his words.
Then I made him another copy without comment (I did not insult him).

If only error messages are allowed in this thread, then I apologize and shut up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is for discussion of the Unofficial Morrowind Patch period. It is for our announcements of our progress and other news about the UMP. It is NOT for discussion or debate about other patches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello.
I'm asking about UMP.

I can't see the development folders.
May I ask about the current status?

How is your cooperation developing, how much has been done and when will the result be ready?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s still on hold. I got my PC back, but I haven’t been able to get the motivation to clean up my desk and get my PC hooked up again. This Covid isolation thing is really making my condition worse. I’ll get back to it when I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi.
It has been another half a year...
 

- What did Fritz answer you ?
- What are the results of your "cooperation" with Half11 ?
- What is the development progress ?
 

I made a new French translation of the game compatible with the English version.
Now I need to make a translation of the English patch to fix the game errors.
Can I use your UMP or better take "UMP by Thepal 1.6.2" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rest of the team will be moving the project to AFK as I’m shutting TAL down. They are waiting for me to give them the latest version of the plugin, but I don’t have a PC at the moment. Once I get a new one built, I’ll finish my changes to the plugin and upload it so the team can grab it and get set up on AFK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are talking about: www.afkmods.com
it is a pity. There is no room for Morrowind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There will be once the files are ready to go. I think it would look a bit odd to have sections in place for something that's not actually available yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant that there are no sites left for Morrowind to develop.
And I do not believe that the authors will work there or on another site.
 

P.S.
Looks like I'll have to take "UMP by Thepal 1.6.2" :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Morrowind is a pretty old game so it's not overly surprising that sites dedicated to it have disappeared over time.

I don't know how other communities are dealing with that, but it isn't really relevant to the UMP since AFK Mods is going to remain online as long as I'm still alive. So once the project is settled in there I don't think you've got much to worry about in that regard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And AFK has a forum integrated bug tracker, which will really help with UMP. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The activity of old games will always be low.
The activity of the sections for older games on the sites will be even lower (many prefer discord).

The presence of UMP at www.nexusmods.com, mw.modhistory.com and other sites does not increase development activity.
Transferring UMP from www.theassimilationlab.com to www.afkmods.com will not change the activity.

I had previously reported errors on discord (Morrowind Modding Community), but the admin decided that I was not worthy of it. :)
Also, I was refused to place my developments there because I am not popular on Nexus. :)
I wanted to report errors here, but it turned out that here was nobody.

> So once the project is settled in there I don't think you've got much to worry about in that regard.
I don't worry about it, but I can't report it there either. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arthmoor
Translation of modern games or correction of their errors is done in a separate mods.
Nobody fixes esm files because it will lead to incompatibility of mods.
 

Morrowind is an old game and does not allow you to translate in a separate mod because there are incompatible names of topics and cells.
An Esm file is the same mod resource as the models, textures, sound files and so on (you can connect/disconnect them in Launcher).
They can not be transferred to other games, but you can change for the current game.
 

You haven't done Morrowind for a long time, but you probably still remember it.
 

Two official translations were made for Morrowind: French and German.
These translations are available on Steam and GoG.
 

The translation was done with the "TES Construction Set".
The Editor changes not only the names of cells, but also the number of objects in them (the number is the object ID).
As a result these games are not compatible with the English version.
 

Now translations are done using ESM/ESP translators (EET, yampt from Nexus).
They change only text strings in the mods not me the contents of cells.
For example, the Polish version: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44518.
 

Is there a ban from Bethesda on changing ESM files to translate Morrowind ?
"You can't because you can't" - I don't need this answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

And AFK has a forum integrated bug tracker, which will really help with UMP. 

 

10 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

The activity of old games will always be low.
The activity of the sections for older games on the sites will be even lower (many prefer discord).

The presence of UMP at www.nexusmods.com, mw.modhistory.com and other sites does not increase development activity.
Transferring UMP from www.theassimilationlab.com to www.afkmods.com will not change the activity.

I had previously reported errors on discord (Morrowind Modding Community), but the admin decided that I was not worthy of it. :)
Also, I was refused to place my developments there because I am not popular on Nexus. :)
I wanted to report errors here, but it turned out that here was nobody.

> So once the project is settled in there I don't think you've got much to worry about in that regard.
I don't worry about it, but I can't report it there either. :)

The only reason there's nowhere to report Morrowind specific information is because I haven't set those sections up yet. I will once the files are ready to be rehomed.

I'm aware that activity isn't going to suddenly increase, but the UMP having somewhere to be taken care of will at least keep it alive, which I think is in everyone's best interest. Wouldn't you agree?

8 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

@Arthmoor
Translation of modern games or correction of their errors is done in a separate mods.
Nobody fixes esm files because it will lead to incompatibility of mods.
 

Morrowind is an old game and does not allow you to translate in a separate mod because there are incompatible names of topics and cells.
An Esm file is the same mod resource as the models, textures, sound files and so on (you can connect/disconnect them in Launcher).
They can not be transferred to other games, but you can change for the current game.
 

You haven't done Morrowind for a long time, but you probably still remember it.
 

Two official translations were made for Morrowind: French and German.
These translations are available on Steam and GoG.
 

The translation was done with the "TES Construction Set".
The Editor changes not only the names of cells, but also the number of objects in them (the number is the object ID).
As a result these games are not compatible with the English version.
 

Now translations are done using ESM/ESP translators (EET, yampt from Nexus).
They change only text strings in the mods not me the contents of cells.
For example, the Polish version: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44518.
 

Is there a ban from Bethesda on changing ESM files to translate Morrowind ?
"You can't because you can't" - I don't need this answer.

Yes, I remember how Morrowind works as far as editing stuff. It's one of those weird side effects of the engine not having form IDs yet. Obviously that makes translations a huge pain in the ass, but that's something I'd be leaving to those who know other languages to deal with since I only speak English. So the community would just need to continue to trust that the translators are doing things correctly.

As far as what Bethesda does and doesn't allow, you need to ask them about it. I'm not aware of them having said one way or the other, and as I'm sure you're aware, if they don't explicitly grant permission you can't assume you have it. Directly distributing modified base ESM files is an entirely different thing than someone making a regular mod with only translated text in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be helping to maintain and update the UMP as soon as it's been transferred over to AFK Mods and I have a chance to look over the full changelog if we have one. I'm a bit lazy, which is why I haven't compiled one yet. That and I think Andy already has. If you find any bugs that the team missed AFTER the mod has been released, then post them on the bug tracker and I'll get to them ASAP. Complaining about it isn't helping anybody right now, so be patient. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a change log and it’s IMPRESSIVE. *preens* We’ve done a lot of work and we haven’t even merged all of the team patches yet.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

> The only reason there's nowhere to report Morrowind specific information is because I haven't set those sections up yet.
For me this is not the only reason. I believe that I am forbidden to register on a site whose administrator has blocked even unnecessary for me mods.
 

> least keep it alive
I do not consider the project alive. It is just an old copy for history.
PfP has gone far in front, but its author is very selfish.
I believe that such projects should be done by a group and not depend on the view of one person.
 

> It's one of those weird side effects of the engine not having form IDs yet.
There is nothing strange about it. Arena and Daggerfall did not even have esm file.
 

The question arises: is it possible to translate Morrowind game into other languages and if so, how ?
 

I know that you are fanatical about the mods requirements and forbid even doing what is allowed on Nexus.
Replacing the esm file is the only solution to translate the game.
 

> if they don't explicitly grant permission
I don't think Bethesda gave a list that says what you can do.
She provided the authors with the editing tool "TES Construction Set".
Mods made with its help should not violate rights.
 

Besides CS, there are other non-official utilities which are used by all authors.
My translation differs from the official translation only in the fact that it does not correct the content of cells, which results in incompatibility with mods.
That is, in my translation is corrected less than in the official one (only text).
 

> Directly distributing modified base ESM files is an entirely different thing
Any resources are available for editing and use in the game, but not for transfer to other games.
If you make an esm file to use it in Oblivion or Skyrim, it will be forbidden.
French esm files can only replace files for the French version of Morrowind.
 

> with only translated text in it
You can't change only the name of the object. CS will copy the whole object to your mod.
If you change the name of a cell, you get a copy of the content of this cell in the mod.

P.S.
You never answered: can I have UMP translated into French ?

I have GFM to fix bugs in the Russian version of the game.
But it is not compatible with the English version.
And with UMP there are questions that have no one to ask.


For example:
Vaermina the Dreamweaver (in Daedric script, ), also called Vaernima, is one of the seventeen Daedric Princes.
Why UMP_1.5.6 changes:
"Vaermina's" -> "Vaernima's" ?

Edited by ZWolol2
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2020 at 11:47 PM, AndalayBay said:

And AFK has a forum integrated bug tracker, which will really help with UMP. 

It's actually not integrated with the forum. Tracdown was abandoned several major updates back and it broke at some point. I had to roll my own and my web dev skills don't include being able to turn it into an IPB module. Their code is so badly spaghettified that I can't follow it.

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, ZWolol2 said:

For me this is not the only reason. I believe that I am forbidden to register on a site whose administrator has blocked even unnecessary for me mods.

Dunno where you got that from or even what this means, but that's your choice. I will say this though - your history of openly advocating piracy on the Nexus Mod Author Forums would probably mean that you'd be watched more closely than normal.

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, ZWolol2 said:

There is nothing strange about it. Arena and Daggerfall did not even have esm file.

Actually there is. The lack of form IDs is why so many things have to be done in so many different ways from the norm for every game that came after Morrowind. Arena and Daggerfall are irrelevant because those aren't even on the same engine as Morrowind.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, ZWolol2 said:

I don't think Bethesda gave a list that says what you can do.
She provided the authors with the editing tool "TES Construction Set".
Mods made with its help should not violate rights.

And there in lies the problem. They didn't give explicit permission to redistribute the entire file - what they DID give you is permission to made dependent modules with the CS. A translation file CAN be done without needing to include absolutely everything else about the file. The game can handle edits at the level necessary, and one need only look at the official DLCs and the free mods to know that you can make changes to existing places without issue. A translation would just be making a whole bunch more of those changes.

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, ZWolol2 said:

P.S.
You never answered: can I have UMP translated into French ?

You never asked that. Obviously I don't object, but I'm not the one you need to ask for permission given how you keep saying you plan to go about it.

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, ZWolol2 said:

For example:
Vaermina the Dreamweaver (in Daedric script, ), also called Vaernima, is one of the seventeen Daedric Princes.
Why UMP_1.5.6 changes:
"Vaermina's" -> "Vaernima's" ?

I wasn't involved with those older patches so I have no idea. If the name was changed as you say, I'd need to know whether or not the rest of the game is using the misspelling instead of the correct one because it's possible that was corrected to match what the rest of the game is using as her name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

> Dunno where you got that from or even what this means, but that's your choice
Piracy is prohibited on Nexus and in case of its propaganda I would be blocked by the administration.
Even if I was on the border of allowed, for many years I would still be mistaken and would be expelled from the site.
 

I calmly communicate with the administration and they even advised me what to do to reduce the likelihood of conflict with the site's fanatics.
I don't agree with all Nexus rules, but I am satisfied with their rules.
If you have other requirements, I see no point in registering on a site whose rules consider me a violator.
 

> A translation file can be done without needing to include absolutely everything else about the file.
This is how all mods after Morrowind are made, because it allows the game engine.
I don't know any mods for MW made according to these rules and I don't yet suffer from madness to be the first in it.
 

> Can I use your UMP or better take "UMP by Thepal 1.6.2" ?
I did not ask this question to you, but apparently there is no one here to answer it.
 

> "Vaermina's" -> "Vaernima's" ?
The text of four books uses Vaernima. The scroll, script and dialog box uses Vaermina.
I understand that the fix is made for uniformity, but I think it's the right Vaermina.
I gave this example to show that there is no one to discuss these issues with.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

I don't agree with all Nexus rules, but I am satisfied with their rules.
If you have other requirements, I see no point in registering on a site whose rules consider me a violator.

The problem is that you've made it clear you don't believe copyright applies to you and that only Nexus can tell you what you can and can't do with other peoples' work. That's the reason you get yourself into these situations and why nobody there pays attention to you anymore.

6 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

I don't know any mods for MW made according to these rules and I don't yet suffer from madness to be the first in it.

I'd like to think you're just misunderstanding what's being explained but your history doesn't allow for that.

6 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

The text of four books uses Vaernima. The scroll, script and dialog box uses Vaermina.
I understand that the fix is made for uniformity, but I think it's the right Vaermina.
I gave this example to show that there is no one to discuss these issues with.

Well you're discussing it now :P

Keep in mind this fix was probably made a long time ago when it was just Daggerfall and Morrowind they had to refer to. Both games apparently use both spellings and it isn't entirely clear to me whether that's intentional or not. I would likely have chosen to leave these instances alone.

Daggerfall seems like it used "Vaernima" pretty much everywhere, while Morrowind has mixed spellings, and Oblivion and Skyrim both use "Vaermina" exclusively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/9/2020 at 8:28 AM, ZWolol2 said:

I do not consider the project alive. It is just an old copy for history.
PfP has gone far in front, but its author is very selfish.
I believe that such projects should be done by a group and not depend on the view of one person.

This bugs the hell out of me because I just said that I will be maintaining the UMP after it's been transferred. Do you only read messages that support what you're saying? Or are you so focused on what Arthmoor is saying that you ignore everything else? Stop being dense. There hasn't been any activity on the project because it's pretty much done from what the team could tell from the list of bugs fixed and not fixed. If you find a bug, post it here and Andy can check the changlog to see if it's already been addressed. Quit saying that the project is dead because it isn't.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, I am talking to an aliens who cannot or does not want to understand me.
I will not answer the charges (it makes no sense)...
 

> Well you're discussing it now :)
Discussion is when opponents speak their opinion and a decision is made.
 

I said my opinion: > I understand that the fix is made for uniformity, but I think it's the right Vaermina.
Your opinion: I would likely have chosen to leave these instances alone.
And what is the solution ?

It seems to me that everything will remain unchanged.
This does not correspond to our opinions, and therefore the discussion will be a waste of time.
All questions are solved quickly on the discord or GFM forum and without the help of a bug tracker.
 

I waited for 5 months, then I asked 4 questions:

During the week I got only one answer about progress...

Books were copied from old games to new ones very often without changes.
Therefore, the texts of books sometimes do not coincide with new dialogues.
 

This name is also used in object ID:
sc_vaerminaspromise    Scroll of Vaermina's Promise
sc_vaerminaspromise_en
 

I consider it acceptable not to fix the title in Daggerfall books, but I consider a bug: Vaermina's -> Vaernima's

Edited by ZWolol2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ZWolol2 said:

I said my opinion: > I understand that the fix is made for uniformity, but I think it's the right Vaermina.
Your opinion: I would likely have chosen to leave these instances alone.
And what is the solution ?

The solution is that there is no need to fix it since both spellings are considered valid in the context of Morrowind.

If this were for Oblivion or later and one of the "Vaernima" typos still existed, then we'd fix the one that stood out from the others.

If this were Daggerfall, we'd do the opposite if we were in charge of a patch project for that game.

Not every typo needs to be fixed - but this isn't something I personally will be getting involved with. If Jac thinks it's a valid fix then it's up to him to move forward on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×