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      Orphan Attachments   07/31/2018

      I have been doing some housekeeping lately and I've noticed that I had a lot of orphaned attachments. Attachments get orphaned when the PM or post is deleted without removing the attachment first. Deleting a PM or post does not delete the attachment and the file or image remain on the server. I'd like to ask all members to go through their attachments and delete any attachments you don't need anymore or those that have been orphaned. Where can I get a list of my attachments? Click on your display name in the upper right corner of the forums and pick "My Attachments" from the drop-down list. How can I tell an attachment is orphaned? If the PM has been deleted, you'll see a message like this in your attachment list: Unfortunately there is no message if the post has been deleted, so please check your old posts. We do purge old birthday threads every once in a while. Also some hosted projects have been shut down, so you may have orphaned attachments on one of those locations. Thanks!
TheDarkListener34

Mod Organizer

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I looked up the Mod Organizer for Skyrim, and it looks like( I am not sure if anyone recommend of me installing this instead of using Wrye Bash) it's a lot better. Like I said I am not so sure. http://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Mod_Organizer#tab=Welcome What do you guys think? I am still having trouble with the main quest. I am way beyond the point where I am at the peace treaty council. But I am still not sure if it's a good idea to install MO. Besides I'm still trying to figure out what mod or mods are being conflicted. But if I do uninstall all of the mods and uninstall wrye bash and re-install Skyrim which is a long wait. And than install MO and more sure the configuration files are there. And than launch MO. Since I am asking if this is a good idea or not let me know about any problems that I might get if I do this or some other issues including features that Mo might not have like on Wrye Bash. Or should I just stay with Wrye Bash, uninstall all the mods and find where all the loose files or the files that have been left behind, delete them and install them again? 

Edited by TheDarkListener34

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Stick with Bash. MO's virtual file system thing is, in my opinion, unnecessary and really only keeps the "Data" directly neat and tidy. This can actually cause a performance hit as you need MO running in the background to translate between the real file system and the virtual one. Also, the virtual file system is known to cause issues with BOSS/LOOT in some cases (it tends to break periodically).

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I've seen too many reported issues that trace back to using MO. Mostly due to the fact that it separates BSA loading from the ESPs. The game is NOT expecting this sort of thing to happen and the results are often not pretty if one is not being VERY careful about it. Problems that don't exist when one sticks with Bash (or NMM for that matter).

 

Also as ds points out, the virtual file system is a bit less than reliable. There's even bugs in the tracker about it corrupting data over time.

 

MO is probably a good solution for the games that are more dependent on things being in loose files. Which is ironic, because for those games almost nobody uses it and would have little reason to because of Bash.

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There's still a warning on the SMIM page about MO and problem with large file installs.

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MO also has problems when a lot of new files are created. For example someone posted that running TES4LODGen under MO took around 16 minutes, while using -O switch to set output path outside of MO's virtual file system took it down to 30 seconds. Elminster added that -O switch only because of MO and it's unbelievably poor performance (maybe it is better now, I don't know, not using it and will never do).

Edited by zilav

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I've been using Mod Organizer for a while now. Though it has its issues and quirks, I find it to be a very good tool overall. I've been using it for both Skyrim and Oblivion, and have not noticed any performance hit even with having over one hundred mods on each game. However, I could imagine there to be a slowdown when using tools through Mod Organizer, given the virtual file system's inherent overhead. I find it to be a very valuable tool for installing mods such as texture packs, music packs and the likes, and organizing them down to the Install Order level; which came in very handy when I found two music replacer mods I liked: One that adds a bunch of really nice ambient musics, but no combat music, and another that adds some really nice combat music, but the ambient music it adds is not up to par with the first mod. Were I doing things manually, I'd need to backup my Skyrim/Data/Music directory, then install the second music replacer, then install the first. But with Mod Organizer, i simply install both mods through the organizer, and can drag and drop them into the proper install order. This is a very simple example, but you can see the extendability of this for larger install order conflicts.

 

The virtual data system makes things very nice for testing out new texture replacers, or mods that replace scripts, without the need to backup all the originals and revert if the mod is not liked. It makes it also very simple to switch between them and turn them on and off, especially with the Profiles feature. The profiles feature is a very nice feature for me, allowing me to switch between vanilla, a lite build with only a few mods, a test profile for testing new mods in isolation, and my main SkyRe profile with the massive modlist.

 

The system has LOOT built in, and it seems to work fairly well. Though there is currently a bug in the Oblivion version that I am having trouble diagnosing. The Skyrim version however, has been running fine since the last time I tested.

 

Also with the profiles feature are nice little things like savegames local to each profile (something I used to do manually, saving my plugins.txt in a directory with a bunch of saves, but now is far quicker) and INI configurations also local to each profile.

 

 

Overall, it is a lot of little changes that mostly are convenience, but make the modding experience far quicker and easier.

 

 

 

That being said, I am always sure to disable Mod Organizer whilst doing development on a mod. I want to have total control over what ESP file is being created, where it's going, what is overwriting what, and though Mod Organizer can work with this, I find it simpler here to just do things manually. When modding Oblivion, I am sure to disable Mod Organizer, and just do my work via obse_loader.exe -editor.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention in regards to development, Mod Organizer lacks such tools as ESMify self. Wry Bash is still needed for mod development.

 

 

Some final words on Mod Organizer. Although it claims to be able to manage Steam installed mods, this feature has not been implemented correctly as of yet, and so Steam mods will remain "unmanaged". Also, if deciding to use mod organizer, be prepared for several hours of installing, as it is usually easiest to revert your game to a completely Vanilla state, then install all mods through Mod Organizer. This tends to keep everything set up so that you can take the greatest advantage of its features. It is not necessary, as when I first started using Mod Organizer, I just installed new mods through it, and used it for profile specific load order, INI, and Savegames. But a while back I completely refactored my Skyrim build to use Mod Organizer. Once I picked up Anthology, I started my new Oblivion build in Mod Organizer from the start, and it has been a fantastic experience.

 

 

That's what I have to say on the matter. The tool is not quite perfect, and I've been hoping to find the time to write one or two plugins to make the experience run slightly smoother, but overall, it works very well.

Edited by LID919

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I've been using Mod Organizer for a while now. Though it has its issues and quirks, I find it to be a very good tool overall. I've been using it for both Skyrim and Oblivion, and have not noticed any performance hit even with having over one hundred mods on each game. However, I could imagine there to be a slowdown when using tools through Mod Organizer, given the virtual file system's inherent overhead. I find it to be a very valuable tool for installing mods such as texture packs, music packs and the likes, and organizing them down to the Install Order level; which came in very handy when I found two music replacer mods I liked: One that adds a bunch of really nice ambient musics, but no combat music, and another that adds some really nice combat music, but the ambient music it adds is not up to par with the first mod. Were I doing things manually, I'd need to backup my Skyrim/Data/Music directory, then install the second music replacer, then install the first. But with Mod Organizer, i simply install both mods through the organizer, and can drag and drop them into the proper install order. This is a very simple example, but you can see the extendability of this for larger install order conflicts.

This has been a central feature in Wrye Bash for years - the BAIN system. Lets you do exactly what you just described. Switch the priority order in which files are installed to the Data folder so that one mod can be partially overwritten by another but still be properly tracked should you want to remove one of them later. Fortunately the BAIN system worked perfectly when Skyrim came out so it's never really been an issue in need of a solution.

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It does, don't know how extensive it is though. Extensive enough that Tannin apparently moved the BSA extraction options there to keep them out of the hands of noobs who were using it without knowing why.

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I've been using Mod Organizer for a while now. Though it has its issues and quirks, I find it to be a very good tool overall. I've been using it for both Skyrim and Oblivion, and have not noticed any performance hit even with having over one hundred mods on each game. However, I could imagine there to be a slowdown when using tools through Mod Organizer, given the virtual file system's inherent overhead. I find it to be a very valuable tool for installing mods such as texture packs, music packs and the likes, and organizing them down to the Install Order level; which came in very handy when I found two music replacer mods I liked: One that adds a bunch of really nice ambient musics, but no combat music, and another that adds some really nice combat music, but the ambient music it adds is not up to par with the first mod. Were I doing things manually, I'd need to backup my Skyrim/Data/Music directory, then install the second music replacer, then install the first. But with Mod Organizer, i simply install both mods through the organizer, and can drag and drop them into the proper install order. This is a very simple example, but you can see the extendability of this for larger install order conflicts.

That's exactly what Wrye Bash does to let the user see where loose files be stored in the Data folder once installed and you can manage the install order in the Installers tab aka BAIN.

 

Wrye Bash also show you any conflicts or if an archive has dirty files plus all possible conflicts with other mod files of other installed mods.  And you can also *reset* installed BAIN archive via the Annealing command.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention in regards to development, Mod Organizer lacks such tools as ESMify self. Wry Bash is still needed for mod development.

Then for gods sake why does MO even exist if it still need one of the feature of Wrye Bash.

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This is just a comparison with other games when using MO.  I know what game MO would actually do some good for the user and that's to manage mods in Rome TW, because there is only two options to use mods in RTW.

 

1.  Overwrite vanilla files and mods can only be uninstalled by reinstalling the game

2.  Use the RomeTW.exe" -nm -mod:<mod name>MOD -show_err switch aka modfoldered

 

 

However, this only works for Rome TW or older Total War games due to the usage of compressed mod packs by Creative Assembly (CA) in newer games (from Medieval 2 TW or newer), but some M2TW mods could be managed in MO not sure though.

 

If you want to know how complex mod packs really are and how to alter them then read this tutorial.

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It does, don't know how extensive it is though. Extensive enough that Tannin apparently moved the BSA extraction options there to keep them out of the hands of noobs who were using it without knowing why.

Hmm, interesting. Is there any documentation somewhere? I'd be interested in at least taking a look.

 

LID919, it's just been brought to my attention that you said you have the Anthology. Could you grab the CRCs of the unmodified (so no LAA flag set or anything) executables for Morrowind and Oblivion? I'd like to check them against the regular versions and see if we have a match.

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There probably is, but I don't use MO. So most of what I know about it comes in second hand. It's been a long time since I last tried it for myself, but when I did, I was not at all impressed.

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Well that's where you're likely to find a mod that you're looking for, so go there and try searching.

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I'm pretty sure MO grew organically in the same way Bash did and one day, Tannin will decide it's time to refactor and wish he hadn't let that happen :P

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Oh, the issue is not the size of the source files. Quite the opposite. He's been too aggressive in compartmentalizing his code. Some files are just a few functions and he's got hundreds of files and directories. I took one look at went, "Where the hell is everything? Oh..." :P

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I'm pretty sure MO grew organically in the same way Bash did and one day, Tannin will decide it's time to refactor and wish he hadn't let that happen :P

After reading the wiki about MO, I can see why Tannin should stop development MO into a full featured mess.

 

Workarounds Tab

 

Hide inactive ESPs/ESMs - This workaround will hide any inactive ESPs/ESMs. Currently bugged, so do not use.

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