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      Orphan Attachments   07/31/2018

      I have been doing some housekeeping lately and I've noticed that I had a lot of orphaned attachments. Attachments get orphaned when the PM or post is deleted without removing the attachment first. Deleting a PM or post does not delete the attachment and the file or image remain on the server. I'd like to ask all members to go through their attachments and delete any attachments you don't need anymore or those that have been orphaned. Where can I get a list of my attachments? Click on your display name in the upper right corner of the forums and pick "My Attachments" from the drop-down list. How can I tell an attachment is orphaned? If the PM has been deleted, you'll see a message like this in your attachment list: Unfortunately there is no message if the post has been deleted, so please check your old posts. We do purge old birthday threads every once in a while. Also some hosted projects have been shut down, so you may have orphaned attachments on one of those locations. Thanks!
AndalayBay

Paid Mods for Skyrim

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Yes, that's something that I said to VM in a PM that's worth repeating here: I think there are a large number of people that are taking advantage of the situation to troll and be general assholes. I don't think they care about the mods being for sale at all.

 

As usual, don't let the actions of a small but very vocal few ruin it for us all.

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This put me off making a rather niche mod for Skyrim, but not so much for Beyond Skyrim. Being in a team rocks :)

 

While I don't appreciate Arthmoor and others jumping onto the bandwagon - I can see why monetising mods may seem tempting. If I was able to monetise my mod Desert Region 2 for Morrowind, I would've invested some of the money to make a better mod. Right now, it's a clashing mess and the fact that I was the only one who volunteered their time and effort into the project made any expansion plans for that mod completely over.

 

In fact, the situation got so bad that I decided to reboot the mod and it's currently being turned into an indie game.

 

So I would understand paying for something like Skyrim XP or a total conversion which could be a whole new game in its own right. But paying money just so I can rebuild a castle, fish or just have some new features in SkyUI - eh, no.

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One thing that needs clarifying, since it seems people are taking Chesko completely at face value.

 

<snip>

 

Paid mods won't kill anything.

Perhaps but now I'm not so sure about that since Chesko had stated quoted in the blog post brucoms linked to that he serious consider to leave the community.

 

Yes it does, money kills a hobby and Emma mention it here.

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Money only kills the hobby if you let it. You don't have to participate in the money aspect. I program as a hobby but I don't get money for it at all. I do it because I enjoy it. The point I'm making is that everyone is jumping the gun as opposed to just seeing how things will play out. It's way too early to speculate.

Edited by Visceral Moonlight

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The spirit of modding is sharing.

 

In order to grow in quality rather than in quantity, modding has to be a labour of love, not a labour for money.

I actually agree with her and about these quotes. Modding is sharing though. You learn from others and provide yourself to create your own mod. I wouldn't mind if it was an older game. For example, like Morrowind or Daggerfall. I wouldn't go for Oblivion or Skyrim or either one of them. Money shouldn't exist in these communities for modders who created their own huge projects or so. (I have no idea what I'm saying hehe) Anyways, if bethesda was going way to far, I wouldn't be able to handle it. Right now, there going towards that path.

 

Here's an example. If a mod costs let's say $5.25 and you've been wanting to get that mod since, you got the pc version of skyrim. However, you don't have any money to buy that concern mod. And it's mostly been a huge and a successful mod.

 

Why am I saying this? Well like Emma said, modding is sharing for others to enjoy for their games or to improve it. She said an example about her mod Vilja.

 

 

Vilja - she has been my main project since 2009, my artificial child. You can like her or hate her, I will still love her to bits. I don't "own" her, I have always worked in small teams, sharing knowledge with others. Vilja in Skyrim is by me Amgepo and Lycanthrops, Vilja in Oblivion is by me and CDCooley. And there has been so many others involved as well, testers, people replying to questions in forum thread, people making optional looks for her, writing manuals etc etc. She is really a community project.

 

And, she is not for sale. Not now, not ever! I'm not going that path. If I should charge for the hours I have spent on her and on figuring out and implementing various features of  companion modding since Morrowind, the price would be so ridicilously high that no-one in their right mind would pay it anyway. So she, like the rest of my mods, will never be charged for.

 I am not saying that the "buying" part of it should be off from steam. I know that a lot of modders around Nexus, Bethesda softworks, and some other modding communities are jumping concluesions and deleting their accounts on these sites. Because of this reason. However, this is just my own opinion about it, right? Right.

 

However, Scott's "position on paid modding remains exactly the same as it has been the past month." I like what he is saying on his blogs though, but he's trying very hard to keep all the mod authors to calm down and to have an option rather or not to pay for their mods or to have it for free. Nexus is always for free.

 

When I first came to steam, I had a feeling that a lot of games will have that type of program. I didn't like it. I rather have the CD than the program to buy the game and less pay. I know there is an option to not see or open the steam program to "play". I'm still 90% against steam. The other 10% I've been playing games on it, because one thing on that 10% I don't care. I love playing games, although Ignore the steam program. I am a gamer, I enjoy the games I play, however, I do rage at times.

 

What I saw that Bethesda has been putting a lot of their games on steam and tighting security for their games, because of hacking or a good way to provide money instead of putting them on shelves at every shop they see. (This is just me ranting, sorry about that)

 

But hey let's all enjoy what we been usually do: make mods and let other gamers enjoy them, right?

 

Edited by TheDarkListener34

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One thing that needs clarifying, since it seems people are taking Chesko completely at face value.

 

<snip>

 

Paid mods won't kill anything.

Perhaps but now I'm not so sure about that since Chesko had stated quoted in the blog post brucoms linked to that he serious consider to leave the community.

 

Yes it does, money kills a hobby and Emma mention it here.

 

Chesko made his bed. He has nobody to blame for what happened besides himself. If he needs to exit the scene for a bit because he doesn't want to deal with the backlash, so be it.

 

Money isn't going to kill modding. The community turning on each other will.

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I think Chesko feels a little humiliated right now mostly of what happen perhaps a bit disappointed.  And like he said on reddit he knew there will be a backlash from the community, but no one would know the backlash be this big like a tornado or something.

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Repost for Beth:

 

Wow.

 

So I read a "sample" of what people have been writing. I suppose more than ever I'm glad I don't mod for Skyrim (yes, I do still mod for Oblivion, one day I might release something). That's a good place to start, actually, my volume of work in mods and meshes is quite significant, I think, but very rarely am I happy to release something, most of it is fiddling for my own enjoyment.

 

Making a paid mod has all sorts of implications, such as whether resource makers can object to you profiting off something they released as fee. For example, if I made a tileset and someone used that in a paid mod when I released the mod for free, should I then be able to demand a cut, or demand the resources be removed? If my meshes are an important part of a level the I can argue that my work is integral to the mod's success and therefore the creator's profits. Speaking of profits, whilst I can see Valve getting a significant cut for maintaining the infrastructure one has to note that the game publisher is getting a bigger cut than the mod author, despite the fact that the mod author is the one prolonging the life of the game and encouraging new sales via the mod release - the division should be an equal one to acknowledge the symbiotic nature of mods and modding, developer and modder.

 

Then there's the issue of stealing mod ideas. Arthmoor made a paid mod to clean up castle at the end of Dawn Guard. That's a pretty obvious choice for a mod, what if someone else makes a free version, or makes a different chargeable version? At what point does Arthmoor's economic right to profit from his work trump the historical right of modders to keep remaking other people's mods in a different way?

 

In summation, whilst I don't have any real moral objections I don't see this working in the long run, I expect the community to fracture to an extent, and it's entirely possible that this will ruin working relationship as modders end up on opposite sides of the "pay divide".

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Whole system is badly implemented and doesn't offer anything of value to the actual community. It's not self-sustainable and all that's likely to happen is that some individuals will make a couple hundred bucks off it while valve/bethesda will make a couple thousand off of them. Everyone will eventually calm down and the market will speak for itself one way or the other.

 

Personally, I have no interest in paying for mod content or for selling mod content. I'm not offended that anyone feels differently on either point though. Frankly, the atrocities here are some of the reactions on display. Partially the blatant flaming and insult throwing; partially some of the more insidious attempts at swaying peoples views of others into negative light. It's all very silly and I'm glad that I've distanced myself from the TES modding community for some time now.

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I've found this whole thing thoroughly depressing and I'm bowing out of the discussion. The discussion here has been pretty good - I'm upset about the whole thing, the reasons for it and the reaction of most people on other forums.

 

I'm just going to play the games and work on my Oblivion mods for now.

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One thing that needs clarifying, since it seems people are taking Chesko completely at face value.

 

<snip>

 

Paid mods won't kill anything.

Perhaps but now I'm not so sure about that since Chesko had stated quoted in the blog post brucoms linked to that he serious consider to leave the community.

 

Yes it does, money kills a hobby and Emma mention it here.

 

Chesko made his bed. He has nobody to blame for what happened besides himself. If he needs to exit the scene for a bit because he doesn't want to deal with the backlash, so be it.

 

Money isn't going to kill modding. The community turning on each other will.

 

Hopefully this backlash won't cause too much lasting damage, and that it will be recoverable.

 

I've found this whole thing thoroughly depressing and I'm bowing out of the discussion. The discussion here has been pretty good - I'm upset about the whole thing, the reasons for it and the reaction of most people on other forums.

 

I'm just going to play the games and work on my Oblivion mods for now.

Good idea. Though it's probably all that we can do for now until the nastiness eases off.

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I've found this whole thing thoroughly depressing and I'm bowing out of the discussion. The discussion here has been pretty good - I'm upset about the whole thing, the reasons for it and the reaction of most people on other forums.

 

I'm just going to play the games and work on my Oblivion mods for now.

I too feel the discussion is a little heated, but I participated and said a few things.  Anyway, slowly have people started to go back to how it was before this stupid move from Bethesda was announced and this gave me a good laugh.

 

Perhaps my suggestion I posted earlier today appeal to you.

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It seems that this topic has just about run its course. Any objections if I lock it until there's something new to report to ensure that it isn't posthumously revived?

None from me. :)

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It seems that this topic has just about run its course. Any objections if I lock it until there's something new to report to ensure that it isn't posthumously revived?

 

Just leave it. It's fine.

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I posted a comment. It's still awaiting moderation, so I'll repeat it here:

 

 

One area that I think could really benefit from the new paid mod scheme is animation and modelling. One of the biggest hurdles in producing large mods is finding people who are willing to create new creatures, animations and complex models. Those that have these skills rarely release their work beyond their first attempts. Once they are proficient, they usually get paid jobs and don’t produce game content.

I hope the paid mods can be expanded to include tutorials and resource content like creatures and animations. We are probably going to have to hire an animator for The Black Marshes (a large provincial mod for Oblivion) to ever be completed.

I am also planning a mod for Skyrim that will require a DLL, so the Steam Workshop will also have to accept that kind of content.

We've got three custom creatures for Black Marsh that we've been trying to get done for years. I even contacted SaidenStorm and he said he's too busy to help. I think we're going to have to post an ad and hire someone to create those creatures for us. So being able to sell content may make some of these resources available. I'm not referring to the simple retexture of existing creatures - I'm referring to genuinely custom creatures that need a complete set of animations.

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Having DLLs in Steam would be a tricky business due to the ability to hide malicious code in them more easily than with a standard mod. They'd need access to the source code for the DLL and would need to somehow verify that the plugin is actually built from that code. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how they'd work this. :shrug:

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I might be able to work around it if they can't figure it out. I'd have to make the DLL available elsewhere and people would have to download it separately. It'd be much easier if they can figure it out.

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