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Trump - Seriously?


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#201
Amadaun

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That's what I'm saying. He's doing good things to The U.S. I don't understand why "my" generation is being stupid and acting like babies. Now I heard on the news that college students want a space room and hot cocoa and watch kids shows.

It's like I've been seeing the same shit over and over about them.

I'm getting all of my news from Fox News. Not these fake news like CNN and MSM and all the other news networks.

 

Okay, normally I'd be very snarky, but you actually don't seem to know anything about what a safe space is.  And that's okay!  But let me explain.

 

A safe space (what you wrote as a "space room") isn't what you think it is.  To sum up, let's say that you're part of a computer game club.  People who hate gamers want to come in.  But you know they'll only bully and shame the gamers. Maybe they'll let everyone know that they're gamers.  Maybe they'll try to beat them up or even kill them because they don't like gamers.

Therefore, you have the right to throw these people out.  You have the right to a safe space where you won't be hurt.  They're not allowed to be in the gaming club when they absolutely HATE gamers.

And that's what a safe space is.  It's not cookies and crayons and chocolate (though I'm 100% behind those things for all groups because chocolate) - It's claiming a place for people who accept us for who we are.  And not want to kill us.

 

...

 

That's not an exaggeration.  

People celebrate our deaths by torture.  People blame us for natural disasters.  They kill us.  They rape us.

You're seeing the "same shit over and over" because we - women and queer people - keep getting raped and murdered.

P.S.  The next time you call my life "fake news" I will stop being nice and start being pissed.  Please listen to what we queer women have dealt with.


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#202
Schtearn

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Space Room? Sure beats a concentration camp!

What happened to the Blue Room?


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#203
Amadaun

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Welp.  Teachers like me are all going to die.
 

https://www.theguard...ies-dana-loesch

So!  How many bullets do I deserve as a liberal feminist queer lady who teaches Sunday School?  It's clearly not ALL the bullets because I'm white, but also more bullets for pointing out that literally every conservative called Obama Hitler/socialist/communist/TOTALLY HITLER and you're all a bunch of lying hypocrites.


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#204
TheDarkListener34

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Okay, normally I'd be very snarky, but you actually don't seem to know anything about what a safe space is.  And that's okay!  But let me explain.

 

A safe space (what you wrote as a "space room") isn't what you think it is.  To sum up, let's say that you're part of a computer game club.  People who hate gamers want to come in.  But you know they'll only bully and shame the gamers. Maybe they'll let everyone know that they're gamers.  Maybe they'll try to beat them up or even kill them because they don't like gamers.

Therefore, you have the right to throw these people out.  You have the right to a safe space where you won't be hurt.  They're not allowed to be in the gaming club when they absolutely HATE gamers.

And that's what a safe space is.  It's not cookies and crayons and chocolate (though I'm 100% behind those things for all groups because chocolate) - It's claiming a place for people who accept us for who we are.  And not want to kill us.

 

...

 

That's not an exaggeration.  

People celebrate our deaths by torture.  People blame us for natural disasters.  They kill us.  They rape us.

You're seeing the "same shit over and over" because we - women and queer people - keep getting raped and murdered.

P.S.  The next time you call my life "fake news" I will stop being nice and start being pissed.  Please listen to what we queer women have dealt with.

I'm not saying something like that. Fake news is fake news. You shouldn't be watching CNN because they ARE fake news. When I said the same shit over and over. I meant death and destruction. I'm getting quite tired of it. Including murder and rape and theft. I want something happy like our Independence Day, our celebration of 1776 our American History, our founding fathers. Which were Republicans, by the way. President Donald Trump is doing some awesome things, keeping his promises. And he's taking down ISIS, only 100 men left. And now it's North Korea. I don't think going to war with Russia is a good idea. Because it's not. We're not going to war with Russia, we want to gain our trust and respect to them 

Celebrate our deaths, how can you celebrate a person's death where it's a terrible thing to see and to hear. Blame what blame? There's no blame. 

What the hell happened to America before Obama came in. Our founding fathers are probably very disappointed in us because of what happened to this country. I LOVE THIS COUNTRY and we will fight until we die. Our Military is becoming stronger than ever. 
Like I said President Donald Trump is like Ronald Reagan and George Washington combined into a person who is willing to make America great again. 

And I get what you're saying. I am also a gamer, I don't care what people say to me. Because I love being a gamer. Mostly I am a shut in. 

Just saying out of my opinion. Please don't get upset because of what I said. I am here because people judge our president but he fights back. He's not a bigot, not a sexist, or any other label that the Democrats say. He's trying to make America great again. What it's supposed to be like our founding fathers. 

Anyways, I'm spouting a lot here, but just my opinion. 

And you're not gonna die, stop this media bullshit. You're fine. 


Edited by TheDarkListener34, 05 July 2017 - 07:50 AM.

"Have you not heard of the Dark Brotherhood? Of the remorseless guild of paid assassins and homicidal cutthroats? Join us, and you'll find the Dark Brotherhood to be all that, and so much more. We are, more than anything, a union of like-minded individuals. We kill for profit, for enjoyment, and for the glory of the Dread Father, Sithis. We are family, with bonds forged in blood and death." - Lucien Lachance

 


#205
Amadaun

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I'm not saying something like that. Fake news is fake news. You shouldn't be watching CNN because they ARE fake news. When I said the same shit over and over. I meant death and destruction. I'm getting quite tired of it. Including murder and rape and theft.

 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but just because the news is bad doesn't mean that it's fake.  I know that reading the news can cause depression and anxiety.  That's normal!  And if it's bad for your mental health, you should avoid it on bad days.  
 
But you can't just dismiss it as fake because it's death and destruction.  For me, where I live and this time of year, wildfires are an issue.  Wildfires terrify me.  I don't want to read about them.  I'd do anything to think they're not a threat.  But if I don't keep up on the weather reports and the fire danger, I will be caught unawares.  And I won't know if the smoky haze is coming from a fire near to me or one 800 miles away.  

Sometimes I have to face that phobia in order to be informed about my own safety.  I don't call the fire map "fake news" because it stresses me out.
 

I want something happy like our Independence Day, our celebration of 1776 our American History, our founding fathers. Which were Republicans, by the way.


Er...they weren't.  Republicans, I mean.  Or even in a party.  There weren't political parties until 1787.  The first party was the Federalists.  In 1796, the second was the Democrat-Republicans.

...yes, that was the actual name.
 

President Donald Trump is doing some awesome things, keeping his promises. And he's taking down ISIS, only 100 men left.


Yeah...no.  There's at least 15000 Daesh left.  And any reduction is on the part of the local middle east police put in place by Obama.  Nothing to do with Trump.  He hasn't fought anything other than really angry groundskeepers because he put his golf cart on the green.

That's all I can handle because it's 3:30am.  But give me links to back up what you've said. 


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#206
The Great Smexy Pumpkin

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I've got some quotes!

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."

George Washington

"A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good. So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts. But the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property. Those who hold, and those who are without property, have ever formed distinct interests in society."

James Madison

"Has it been found that bodies of men act with more rectitude or greater disinterestedness than individuals? The contrary of this has been inferred by all accurate observers of the conduct of mankind; and the inference is founded upon obvious reasons. Regard to reputation has a less active influence, when the infamy of a bad action is to be divided among a number than when it is to fall singly upon one. A spirit of faction, which is apt to mingle its poison in the deliberations of all bodies of men, will often hurry the persons of whom they are composed into improprieties and excesses, for which they would blush in a private capacity."

Alexander Hamilton

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

John Adams

"If ever the Time should come, when vain & aspiring Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government, our Country will stand in Need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its Ruin."

Samuel Adams

"He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all its good dispositions."

Thomas Jefferson

I don't think the founding fathers would agree that we're going in the right direction, politically speaking.

I'd also like to bring in a completely different quote:

"This administration has proved that it is utterly incapable of cleaning out the corruption which has completely eroded it and reestablishing the confidence and faith of the American people in the morality and honesty of their government employees."

That's Nixon talking about Truman, which is quite similar to Trump. That's not an accident: both men seem (or seemed as Nixon died some time ago) rather similar in their way of handling things. The difference is that Nixon was a politician, Trump has always been a businessman. In either case, both share similar personality profiles, including some of the more crooked aspects, which is bit disconcerting.

As Kissinger once said: "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
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#207
AndalayBay

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I want something happy like our Independence Day, our celebration of 1776 our American History, our founding fathers. Which were Republicans, by the way.

Er...they weren't.  Republicans, I mean.  Or even in a party.  There weren't political parties until 1787.  The first party was the Federalists.  In 1796, the second was the Democrat-Republicans.
...yes, that was the actual name.

Actually I would pay money to see how the current government would work with the rules of the electoral college from those days. In those days, the guy that won became President and the guy that came in second became Vice President! So the winner's chief rival became his partner. So just picture Trump as President with Hilary Clinton as Vice President. :popcorn:
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#208
The Great Smexy Pumpkin

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I think that would work quite well as it would help dissolve the party lines that have sprung up.

#209
NobleShadowHunter

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I think that would work quite well as it would help dissolve the party lines that have sprung up.

Actually that just amplifies the problem of a two party system, and a prime example was Adams/Jefferson.  What happened was that Jefferson made it damn near impossible for Adams to do anything/get anything done.  Then when it came time for the next election, Jefferson did the whole "See?  Adams was totes useless.  Vote for me!"  Seeing as how the same shit happens in congress without the runner up being VP, I can only imagine what the result would be like in the current political climate.  Political parties aside, I think the biggest reason for our current state is the over-reliance on government to fix/solve/do everything for so long, rather than do what the Founders intended where the people and states run themselves as they see fit so long as they don't violate federal law or do things that only national governments can do (i.e. declare war, create alliances, negotiate trade deals with other nations).

 

As a result, government has reached farther than intended and now we feel the effects of it.  While it's always important and necessary to elect the right people for the job every single time, that doesn't always happen.  With that being the case, I think it goes without saying that you want to limit what the head honcho and the powers that be can do.  While their are certainly limits to this (alliances with foreign nations come to mind), I'm pretty sure we can all think of a few realms where we don't want politicians in.  As someone who is going to student teach later this year and continues to see the continued degradation of the educational foundation on incoming freshman (I work as a student tutor), education is definitely something I want them to stay far, FAR away from.  Given the track record of the US Department of Education as a whole and examining the after effects of what its done, it's heartbreaking to see so many students get cheated out of a quality education. Now, I have nothing against laws that bar schools from discriminating against students and make schools give half a shit about those who have disabilities; those laws are necessary.  However, it has extended far beyond that.  Many students now lack the ability to understand cause and effect relationships, one of the most basic forms of analysis.  Standards have been plummeting for years and yet many seem to be wanting more government involved, despite having a shit track record for...well everything.  I call it "The Reverse Midas Effect," where everything they touch turns not to gold, but to shit.  And American society is paying for it.  I apologize for the tangent, but education really hits home for me; to see it torn to pieces is heartbreaking.  I'm fairly certain we can all think of a few areas ourselves that have the same effect.

 

Tangent aside, I think it can serve as something to learn from.  To make a long point short, when people hand over control over to others (beyond what they are originally suppose to do), they now become reliant on that other person or group to A) do right by them and B) not catastrophically fuck up.  It creates a system that relies so much on one person/group doing everything right all the time while taking care of everyone else.  If this were a person to person relationship, this would likely be classified as a co-dependent relationship (which is something to be avoided at all costs).  If this is something that people actively try to stay away from, then why not apply the same logic to government?  Hell, the Declaration of Independence is reads like a breakup letter to England.

 

Honestly, I think the best way to start fixing the problem is to take back some control and responsibility that was given up over time and just let the states do more on their own.  IIRC, it was argued in The Wealth of Nations that individuals tend to make better decisions than giant groups.  Group projects tend to suck for a reason.  As a side note, going back to the "olden days," the US Constitution states that Congress has to meet at least twice a year.  Representatives could literally meet up, shoot the shit, and then bugger off back home and that would technically qualify as a meetup.  Considering how they do only two things at this point (jack and shit), I'd rather them just meet up for a day, eat some snacks, and fuck off.  New amendment idea: Term limits for congress, and no salary.  The Founders never intended this to be a representative's full time place of employment.

 

Also, can society as a whole calm the fuck down?  I'm all up for debate and sharing of ideas since it's a sign of a healthy society, but the amount of shrieking that goes on nowadays is enough to make a psychotic banshee yearn for some goddamn peace and quiet. 


Edited by NobleShadowHunter, 07 July 2017 - 05:50 PM.

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#210
Sigurd Stormhand

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TheDarkListener34 has already said he gets all his news from Fox News and not other "fake news" channels.

 

I would just give up and lock this thread. If Dark Listener believes that Fox News is the arbiter of Truth then that explains his deviation from the norm on these forums. If you're looking to demolish his pre-conceptions I would suggest you mount an assault on the credibility of Fox News (AKA Faux News).

 

It occurs to me that Fox was referred to as "Faux News" before the term "fake news" was popularised, possibly by Fox. So, either way, they originated the concept, I think.



#211
Amadaun

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TheDarkListener34 has already said he gets all his news from Fox News and not other "fake news" channels.

 

I would just give up and lock this thread. If Dark Listener believes that Fox News is the arbiter of Truth then that explains his deviation from the norm on these forums. If you're looking to demolish his pre-conceptions I would suggest you mount an assault on the credibility of Fox News (AKA Faux News).

 

It occurs to me that Fox was referred to as "Faux News" before the term "fake news" was popularised, possibly by Fox. So, either way, they originated the concept, I think.

 

No.

That's not how debate works.  And I take offense he's the "deviation to the norm."  I might disagree, be sarcastic, or even angry, but we do NOT lock a thread because someone has an unpopular opinion.  Dark Listener is a member of this forum and he deserves a space to post his thoughts.


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#212
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For all the contempt I confess to hold for this thread, I am thankful for that sharp turn and someone setting all opinions and vitriol aside to take that stand. I wholeheartedly support your sentiment and further posit that a modding community that has grown through the development of the many divisive issues that have hit TES modding over the years should be well above such tribalism as silencing dissent or enforcing a political norm, lest it be doomed to splintering into faction-driven uselessness. This is particularly important to keep in mind when developments like the the Creation Club spark complex legal and creative discussions that require constructive criticism to achieve progress. Were The Assimilation Lab to become such a blatant echo chamber, I would complete any existing projects quietly and leave as quickly as I arrived. As such, I reiterate my gratitude that there is resistance to the very notion.

 

There is doubtless no end of things I would disagree with any given member about, regardless of their place in the political spectrum, but we would do well to remember what Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote in The Friends of Voltaire (In synthesis of Voltaire's ideals): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"


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#213
Sigurd Stormhand

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TheDarkListener34 has already said he gets all his news from Fox News and not other "fake news" channels.

 

I would just give up and lock this thread. If Dark Listener believes that Fox News is the arbiter of Truth then that explains his deviation from the norm on these forums. If you're looking to demolish his pre-conceptions I would suggest you mount an assault on the credibility of Fox News (AKA Faux News).

 

It occurs to me that Fox was referred to as "Faux News" before the term "fake news" was popularised, possibly by Fox. So, either way, they originated the concept, I think.

 

No.

That's not how debate works.  And I take offense he's the "deviation to the norm."  I might disagree, be sarcastic, or even angry, but we do NOT lock a thread because someone has an unpopular opinion.  Dark Listener is a member of this forum and he deserves a space to post his thoughts.

 

 

As you wish, but Dark Listener seems impervious to reason and as far as I can see there is no debate going on.



#214
The Great Smexy Pumpkin

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We won't shutdown a discussion by locking it just because we don't agree.

The rules for the Discussion forum even say as much:

Now, we need to make a couple of things clear. Debate in the Discussion forum is likely to get somewhat heated, however, the regular forum rules still apply. Flaming and trolling will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree with someone, that's the whole point of a debate, but make your point without attacking the other party. Attack the post, not the poster, as the saying goes. You also need to respect other peoples beliefs. Some of the subject matter is likely to be very personal to some people and it's important to recognize that their beliefs, opinions or views may not match up with your own.



#215
Sigurd Stormhand

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We won't shutdown a discussion by locking it just because we don't agree.

The rules for the Discussion forum even say as much:
 

Now, we need to make a couple of things clear. Debate in the Discussion forum is likely to get somewhat heated, however, the regular forum rules still apply. Flaming and trolling will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree with someone, that's the whole point of a debate, but make your point without attacking the other party. Attack the post, not the poster, as the saying goes. You also need to respect other peoples beliefs. Some of the subject matter is likely to be very personal to some people and it's important to recognize that their beliefs, opinions or views may not match up with your own.

 

 

I feel you've both missed my actual point, which is admittedly partly my fault for saying you might as well lock the thread.

 

You can't argue with someone if they think all sources except Fox News are "fake" because any evidence you present is automatically dismissed, which is why I said if you want to gain any traction you have to attack the credibility of Fox and demonstrate they're not "fair and balanced" as they used to claim.



#216
AndalayBay

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Which is a worthwhile endeavour in itself. Fox is notorious for not checking their sources and have been caught with that several times. Although even networks with a better reputation have been caught too. Facebook claim they are taking steps to get rid of the false news stories which are plaguing them these days.

I think some folks got caught up in your comments which could be interpreted as an attack on TDL. I didn't interpret them that way, but I can see the other side now that it's been pointed out. Please just be careful in how you phrase things.
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#217
Schtearn

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Or else such disputes might want to be settled RINGSIDE (sorry couldn't resist).


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#218
Amadaun

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Hey, I once got an entire Discussion forum removed from the front page because the site owner didn't like my opinions.  Beat THAT.

 

All joking aside, anyone arguing in good faith is welcome, and the opinions they post here don't make any difference in the rest of the forum.  Forum debates are my late-night guilty pleasure and I'd be SO sad if they didn't exist/agreed with me.   And just because I might disagree with them on RL stuff doesn't mean they can't hand me my ass when it comes to modding/writing/art/etc.  *bows before superior skills*  

Work your research skills, people!


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#219
Schtearn

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Was US President Donald Trump's visit to hurricane hit Puerto Rico a 'PR Disaster'?

Here in Australia we are fascinated by recent events:

 

Off topic: Our own PM_in_waiting raps and charms in the first part of this video. Trump might want to do the same- might it lighten the load of the Puerto Ricans some???


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