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TheDarkListener34

Wildfires in West Coast and Hurricanes in East Coast.

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On Monday, there have been reports of Wildfires in Oregon to Montana to Idaho and now there is bad air quality again here in Washington. The wildfire is heading towards Spokane I think of what I've seen on a map. Now even worse than ever, after the aftermath of Harvey in Texas. Now there is another Hurricane that's even worse. Irma category five, I think it's called correct me if I'm spelling it right. Almost everyone has been evacuated from Florida or has dug holes just for the water to go down to that hole. Of what I saw in the news. Which doesn't do anything, in my opinion, It's a big storm and they do need to be evacuated. Bad things have been happening here in the US ever since after the Solar Eclipse. Which probably doesn't mean anything. 

Edited by TheDarkListener34

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There is no such thing as a category 6 hurricane. That's false news being spread by the web. Category 5 is the biggest. The categories represent the wind speeds and there is no limit on a category 5 hurricane, so there's no such thing as a cat 6.

 

Hey according to Trump, there's no such thing as global warming, so you guys are imagining things. :P

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Thanks for correcting me. Well, who knows, right? You never know if there is more. 
But yeah, Trump did say there's no such thing and I don't believe it either. 

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They're not evacuating northern Florida or laying bags inland. Although, I already dug ditches a month ago. I'm in the swamp so flooding could be an issue here.

 

I'm not overly concerned, though. Panicking just makes things worse.

Edited by Visceral Moonlight

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Wildfires are a natural process in the states where they're burning right now. The problem isn't due to climate change, it's due to bad forest management policy. Down here in SoCal for example, we're waiting for the Big Bear area to go up in smoke. The forest service has been barred from removing all the dead trees that have been affected by bark beetle infestations. 45% of the entire forest is dead and all it'll take is one well placed lightning strike or an arsonist to set the whole thing off. Forestry has said that once it goes up, there's no stopping it. The fire would grow so fast it would be thousands of acres before anyone would even have time to respond. The same mismanagement is a systemic problem state wide, and also similarly problematic in Oregon and Washington too. The system itself needs to change or wildfires that occur naturally anyway will just blow up into infernos until they pull their heads out of their asses about it.

 

Hurricanes have actually been largely suppressed for the last 150 months or so. That said, even though Harvey and Irma are giant monsters, neither is actually the largest hurricane ever seen and those records go all the way back to the late 1800s. The reality is that the US just hasn't been hit by many of the storms that have rolled through the Atlantic during that time frame.

 

Trump acknowledges that climate change exists btw. What he doesn't accept is that we as humans caused it - which a hell of a lot of people agree with. Despite what Al Gore said, the science is not settled and the debate is not over. The fundamental problem is arrogance in assuming that the climate was never once hotter on this planet than it is right now. Their own geological evidence proves that it's been considerably hotter on this planet before and we didn't even exist then. Antarctica without ice? It's happened many times before. The Ice Age we emerged from 15000 years ago hasn't hit the interglacial peak yet. That's not due for another 5000 years.

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That said, even though Harvey and Irma are giant monsters, neither is actually the largest hurricane ever seen and those records go all the way back to the late 1800s. The reality is that the US just hasn't been hit by many of the storms that have rolled through the Atlantic during that time frame.

I think Harvey is an exception, because I heard on the news that Harvey have changed direction towards Louisiana.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/aug/30/tropical-storm-harvey-news-live-louisiana-texas

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The problem is human encroachment. @Arthmoor, as you said, wildfires are natural. They are a forest's way of replenishing itself. If humans didn't want to live in these areas, it wouldn't be a big deal. It's the same thing in BC. The areas where the fires are burning wouldn't really have been an issue a long time ago, but people want to live on hillsides where they get beautiful views. Same with the floods in Ontario. These people are living in flood prone areas, but they are nice waterfront properties. These people can't even get flood insurance because insurance companies know they live in flood zones, but they still squawk and demand aid when surprise, surprise! there's a flood. Quite frankly it pisses me off because we all wind up paying when these people need aid. The government said they're thinking of prohibiting people from living in these areas or if they do, not giving them any aid, but I doubt the government actually has the balls to do anything.

 

Actually when it comes to global warming, I agree. I've never agreed with Al Gore. He's just enjoying the sensationalism of the whole issue. However the more sensible climatologists do warrant that humanity is speeding up the process. Now I'm not sure paying a fortune for "green" energy is going to make an iota of difference, but I do think countries like China need to stop polluting the air so badly that people can't even breathe.

 

The current belief is that these storms are more intense due to global warming. I don't know if it's true or not. Unfortunately it's not something anybody is going to know for another 100 years. The effect of any change is very long term.

Edited by AndalayBay

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I think at least part of the problem is that people associate polluted air with causing climate change. That's not the case, and absolutely nobody opposed to crippling the economy over green energy wants to go back to the days of Stage 4 smog alerts in LA, for example. This is one of the things that pisses me off about the whole issue is that the fanatics try to tie one to the other and they're mutually exclusive.

 

There's also plenty of evidence to show that CO2 levels are not necessarily causing warming - but the other way around. If you throw out the doctored temperature data it becomes somewhat more clear that just as often as not, the temperature goes up first and the CO2 levels follow behind that when what's sequestering it heats up and releases it.

 

In any case, it's not causing more hurricanes, or more intense ones. I've actually seen several articles around the internet that strongly suggest that climate warming is actually suppressing the frequency and intensity of hurricanes. There are always seasonal exceptions though, and I think we're just in one of those at the moment. Even so, 2 monster storms doesn't prove that the sky is falling, and the Western US being on fire doesn't prove droughts were caused by climate change. Better forest and land management policy in the west would mitigate a large part of the problem we all have with fires out here because we're not even allowing the natural fire process to run its course either.

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I think it depends on the pollutants. There has been a recovery in the ozone layer since CFC's were banned. I never got sunburns as a kid. A few years ago I burnt really easily. I think it's gotten better again, but that's subjective.

 

They claim that the odd weather we're seeing, and I'm not referring to the storms, is due to El Nino. All I can say is that about 20 years ago, forecasters were pretty good about predicting the weather and you could rely on the forecast up to a week away. It's so bad now, I just look at tomorrow's weather. Even the forecasters say they can't predict the weather anymore.

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Not sure what kind of forecasters you guys have/had, but ours have never claimed to be able to reliably predict the weather. Only to make educated guesses based on data from the current day. We've never been able to rely on a forecast a week out around here. It's why nobody trusts their climate predictions either.

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Dave Devall was our favourite weatherman, back in the day we called them that. He's actually a meteorologist and said it used to be much easier to predict the weather, but all they can do now is to talk about the trends. I literally grew up watching him do the weather. :D

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Apologies if I'm extra angry, but I have family who may or may not be homeless/dead because of Irma.  (I think they're okay.  The Dutch side of the island reports no deaths.)
 

Absolutely nobody opposed to crippling the economy over green energy 

http://fortune.com/2017/01/27/solar-wind-renewable-jobs/

 

 

There's also plenty of evidence to show that CO2 levels are not necessarily causing warming - but the other way around. If you throw out the doctored temperature data it becomes somewhat more clear that just as often as not, the temperature goes up first and the CO2 levels follow behind that when what's sequestering it heats up and releases it.

...okay, no.  What you're talking about is how the oceans trap/dissolve the extra CO2 and then release it as the temperatures rise.  But they only trap about 30% of the CO2.  

 

So basic math:  30 < 70 and basic chemistry: When you heat up a liquid, it releases gas. 

But please - tell me how and why the temperature data is doctored.
 

 

In any case, it's not causing more hurricanes, or more intense ones. I've actually seen several articles around the internet that strongly suggest that climate warming is actually suppressing the frequency and intensity of hurricanes. There are always seasonal exceptions though, and I think we're just in one of those at the moment. Even so, 2 monster storms doesn't prove that the sky is falling, and the Western US being on fire doesn't prove droughts were caused by climate change. Better forest and land management policy in the west would mitigate a large part of the problem we all have with fires out here because we're not even allowing the natural fire process to run its course either.

Again, link the articles.  "The internet" is not a source.

And no, we're not allowing the natural fire process to run its course because there are now people here.  If you want better forest and land management policy in the west, perhaps you should yell at the Trump Administration for cutting funds for that.

 ...seriously, you can't hire people to do fire management without spending money, and National/State Parks get the majority of their money from the government.  

Do we need to go back to basic math?  I can go back to basic math!  I live in the mountains of Colorado.  We do everything we can to not burn to the ground between February and November.  I'm glad you think you have a solution, but that solution isn't possible with the resources we have, and now we have even fewer resources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBA7eHY022k

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Part of this may be due to Earth's magnetic field currently undergoing a state of flux. To what extent, that's hard to say, but the magnetic field has been doing some weird things in recent years as it prepares to completely change itself in the future and the weirdness has picked up lately (there was an article a few years back but I can't seem to find it at the moment) which may be part of the issue at play. That's not to say it's the only thing affecting stuff but it's likely a contributing factor.

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...It's really not.  That's not how the magnetic field works.  At all.  And if/when it flips, it's also not really going to do much more than mess with migrations and compasses.

It still probably won't happen for another thousand years at least.

 

Source:  One of my physics professors was a conspiracy theorist and my geology professor constantly mocked him for not knowing anything about the Earth itself.  The physics prof also spent multiple spring breaks to try and find Bigfoot out in Oregon.

 

I went to a very strange college is what I'm saying.

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I'm going to have to step out of this conversation until I know that my family is still alive.  The death toll on St Martin is rising and we still can't get in touch with them because everything is gone.

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It's okay!  You didn't offend or upset me.  I'm just recusing myself until I know that my family is okay, because I can't respond properly while I'm this scared.  I've already probably lashed out too much and I need to step back.

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Apologies if I'm extra angry, but I have family who may or may not be homeless/dead because of Irma.  (I think they're okay.  The Dutch side of the island reports no deaths.)

Sorry to hear your family is in the path of that thing. All the best to them and here's to hoping they're alright and just not able to make contact.

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Ama sent me PM this morning saying that they had finally managed to contact them and they are ok. All the windows got blown out in the house, so they've lost everything inside, but they're alive.

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VM is in northern Florida. He sent me a note saying that he'll be offline for a bit to conserve battery power. He said they aren't expecting a direct hit however.

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The awful thing about these events isn't so much the event itself but the ensuing months-weeks-years required to get everything back on an even keel.

Hope @Ama's relations have a place to go to in the meantime. And @VM- trust that life off the grid is bearable for you!

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