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      Leaving IP.Board   11/13/2017

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      New Theme Set Up   11/14/2017

      We have a new theme created by Vincent that's now available to everyone. It has been set as the default theme, so everyone should see it when you refresh the page. If you still aren't seeing it, you can select it from the Theme drop-down at the bottom of the page. It's called Assimilation. Thanks Vincent. Awesome looking theme!
AndalayBay

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This is getting silly. :P

We're not going to pick something unusable. Heck, I can't even use 4.x due to the interface. In order to do anything, I've had to look it up in the code. I've worked with phpBB, SMF, this stuff, and more over the years so I think I can speak from experience when I say that not all of them fit our needs, we just need to find one that ticks most of the boxes. For instance, SMF has better defaults but phpBB is more flexible. We just need to carefully evaluate things, this "I won't use such and such because someone else isn't using it right" isn't helping matters. It kind of muddies the waters so to speak, making it harder to figure out if it will fit our needs. NodeBB is free software so there's a good chance that we'll be able to modify it even more than this thing we're on now. It doesn't guarantee it but it does make it easier since we won't need to worry about IPS bitching at us for making too many changes. So let's just relax and enjoy the show. "You're in good hands with Allstate." :)

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4 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

If you guys are going to leave simply based on the forum software we choose, that's up to you. I prefer people who like being part of this community.

See, the thing is, the software used by the community is an integral part of that community. That's why the one over at BGS fell apart when they yanked the foundation out from under it. first because of Jive, and then later because NodeBB wasn't an adequate replacement. Being able to post is sort of required isn't it? NodeBB makes it damn near impossible to do that correctly because they don't support bbcode at all and expect everything to be done by way of the wysiwyg editor.

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I'm not going to leave over a software change but I will say this:

I know of two communities that straight up died when they switched to NodeBB. Bethesda and Adult Swim both made the switch. Bethesda's community is still up but it's nothing like what it used to be, and Adult Swim straight up shut down their forums that existed for almost 20 years because everyone left. Just saying.

Maybe you guys can do some good things with it though. I'm not doubting you.

Edited by Vincent

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They support markdown which is easy to learn. They aren't the only forum software that use a different markup syntax. They have several other features that might be good for us. There are probably plugins that convert BBcode to markdown. I don't think Beth is functional either, but a lot of it is their configuration and I don't think it's all due to the forum software. Also, as VM said, you guys really need to trust that we aren't going to pick unusable software. We are using it too after all.

Edited by AndalayBay

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Eh, I don't know on which planet Markdown is easy to learn because I've been exposed to it for ages and still can't figure it out. Whereas bbcode is second nature to me. Markdown feels very much like change for the sake of change.

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Are there NodeBB sites out there that do a better job than Bethesda?

The pros & cons approach is positive- perhaps a poll- after narrowing down to some kind of shortlist?

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1 hour ago, Arthmoor said:

Whereas bbcode is second nature to me.

I do prefer BBCode myself. It's intuitive (for me), been using it for ages, and lots of plugins support its easy use. WYSIWYG I've run into problems getting it to do what I want, but that's probably just me. I don't know the Markdown syntax, but I use the BBCodeXtra plugin for Firefox which enables easy use of bbcode, HTML, XHTML, & Markdown via context menu (though it never worked right on bethesda.net). So, whatever. Times, they are a changin', and I've got to change with them or be left behind.

I think Arthmoor has a point about the software being integral to the community, but there are differences. I think of it as the difference between say a Federal government and an local support group. You can be loyal to the government but not know anybody in it personally, and prefer to spend your time away from all its trappings, while still reaping the benefits of citizenship. Whereas a support group can meet in a dingy church basement, drink cheap coffee, sit on metal folding chairs & still have a great time. The difference is size, function, and people. If I want to post a mod, Nexus has an arguably better set up. That doesn't mean I want to spend my time there. If I'm looking for a mod, TAL isn't the first place I'd look. Yet I keep finding myself coming back here. I think there's a reason for that. I suppose it comes down to what TAL wants to be, and what the people who find their way here are looking for. This is a very imperfect example, and I hope I'm getting my point across. It's been a long day & I'm very tired, so I'm sorry if I'm not making sense.

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Personally, the Markdown editor is more or less down the road and that means downhill at least for Bethesda.net.  Which is one reason why I don't visit Bethesda.net much and sometimes I reget I created an account there.

Also, I must say Vincent did a great job with the new theme and I like it a lot. :cowboy:

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I'm going to be sending some inquiries to the NodeBB folks to get more information. One question I've been planning to ask is specifically about supported posting formats and how easily others could be implemented. You guys are fretting too much. Trust me, I can't understand Markdown either. :)

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4 hours ago, Visceral Moonlight said:

You guys are fretting too much.

Are we?  I don't think so.

Let me ask you a question.  Have you tried to post at Bethesda.net yet?  If you haven't then I suggest you to find out first rather than to express any complain about us fretting (whatever that word means, never heard it before) too much.

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Posting on Beth.net is easy, it's only when you try to be fancy that things go wrong, or add links which cause the badly set up spam protection thing to block you.

 

Anyone saying "if you do [this] I'll leave" is just trying to blackmail Andalay & VM into doing what they want instead of what Andalay and VM want, which really isn't at all friendly, and will certainly be disheartening to Andalay & VM, and put them off even trying. End result could potentially be that they decide not to bother if too many people are moaning, and just shut the forum down, it saves them money after all.

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50 minutes ago, Vorians said:

Posting on Beth.net is easy, it's only when you try to be fancy that things go wrong, or add links which cause the badly set up spam protection thing to block you.

What is really funny, I think is that they are totally neglecting the simple things that would make life easier, and are trying to be very fancy themselves. As an example, I had the forum repeatedly tell me I was posting in French and attempting to redirect me to their French forums (My display name, peut etre? Bah! Je ne  sais pas... Mais, comme on identify Franglais?) Now, according to Pseron Wyrd, they are genuinely trying to implement a language identification system. I mean, what could possibly go wrong with that? ;)

Yeah, Vorians, I entirely agree with the rest of your comments. There's an asymmetry here. Beth are the ones with deep pockets, they have no excuses. Small forums are running on a shoestring and a load of unpaid work and it should be up to the administrators to strike the balance between resources and user preferences.

Edited by tegeusCromis

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5 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

I have posted on Beth.net, including large posts announcing the Morrowind Modding Wiki and TESCOSI.

I know you have, but if you mean this post then you might need to compare it to this post.  The latter is a large post with links and text formats, so try that on Bethesda.net then you'll know why both me and Arthmoor dislike NodeBB so much.

There is another negative side effect by using NodeBB and what I am talking about is the PM system.  Did I say PM system?  Yes, I did.  But what I mean is that a normal PM system doesn't exist in NodeBB instead one need to use chat.

How far from a normal genuine forum can NodeBB be?  It is light years away if you ask me.

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