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Envy123

[Relz, WIP] Elsweyr Pelletine

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The third version has now been released.

Bug fixes:
 
-Fixed you not being able to open the Senchal upper district gates after purchasing the property there.
-Fixed a slightly floating building in the Senchal slums.
 
New content:

-The city of Torval, excluding the Mane's Palace.
-The village of Darvulk Haven.
-The full road between Corinthe/Senchal and Torval.
-Three new player homes - one in Torval, another in Darvulk Haven and the other one in Senchal (a starter home).
-The entire peninsula itself is fully populated by locations - except that the Halls of the Colossus have no interiors yet.
-The merchants in Senchal should lock up now.
-The Senchal Palace has a harem now, but at the moment, it's mainly for show.
-A newly expanded coral reef west of Senchal which transitions into Torval's sea.
-Tropical water for a good chunk of the peninsula.

Nexus Download

TAL download

Edited by Envy123

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Update: Exterior-wise, both roads to Torval are done, Torval is mostly done, the misc locations are done except for the coral reefs.

Interior-wise, all of the dungeons except one mine are done, Torval's interiors have just been started, none of Darvulk Haven's buildings have been done yet.

Yet to do any path-gridding.

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Good to see the project progressing, but I'm concerned about Torval. Torval is culturally a part of Pelletine and it's architecture should reflect that, similar (but not identical) to Senchal and Corinth. Having a radically different style (Japanese/Tibetan) seems very out of place.

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7 hours ago, Ahnassi said:

Good to see the project progressing, but I'm concerned about Torval. Torval is culturally a part of Pelletine and it's architecture should reflect that, similar (but not identical) to Senchal and Corinth. Having a radically different style (Japanese/Tibetan) seems very out of place.

I see your point and Torval is not going to be like Chasegrove in architecture. Chasegrove is just going to be a unique village, instead of  resembling a taste of Torval.

However, the problem is that Torval is incredibly hilly and to make it the true capital of Elsweyr, only the Valenwood Islands architecture fits on the slopes with minimal problems. There’s not enough space otherwise to create a bigger city than Senchal or Corinthe.

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Posted (edited)

Couldn't you just flatten the ground there? Personally I think it would be better to concentrate on making a version of Torval that's fits with the rest of Elsweyr rather then having it look like it was built by Bosmer, because that was the only architecture that fitted. 

 

You should check out Ta'agra.com. It's a website dedicated to expand the khajiit language Ta'agra. It also got a section on khajiit honorifics.

I've made some Ta'agra names for the cities that sounds to Imperial. 

Riverhold: Esushoda (esush + oda, short for kroshoda) lit "Riverhold", alternatively: Basikjhadat (basik + jhadat) "Cave city" As Riverhold is built into the side of a mountain. 

Dune: Khajaranadat (khaj + arana + dat, short for jhadat) "City of the desert kings" As Dune has been the capital of Anequina since the fall of the old capital Ne Quin-al during the civil war ca 2E 309.

Orcrest: Drelkamerdat (drelkamer + dat) lit "Orc city"

Moonpath: Kha'jaywadro (kha'jay + wadro) lit "Moonpath"

Corinthe: Bajiitjhadat (bajiit + jhadat) "Merchant city" as Corinthe is the main trading hub of central Elsweyr.

Alabaster: Siirto'oda (siirto + oda) "White Fort" Alabaster is built inside of walls of an Ayleid border fort. 

 

Kha'jay siirithse jer wodro (Moons will light your path)

Edited by Ahnassi

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8 hours ago, Ahnassi said:

Couldn't you just flatten the ground there? Personally I think it would be better to concentrate on making a version of Torval that's fits with the rest of Elsweyr rather then having it look like it was built by Bosmer, because that was the only architecture that fitted. 

 

You should check out Ta'agra.com. It's a website dedicated to expand the khajiit language Ta'agra. It also got a section on khajiit honorifics.

I've made some Ta'agra names for the cities that sounds to Imperial. 

Riverhold: Esushoda (esush + oda, short for kroshoda) lit "Riverhold", alternatively: Basikjhadat (basik + jhadat) "Cave city" As Riverhold is built into the side of a mountain. 

Dune: Khajaranadat (khaj + arana + dat, short for jhadat) "City of the desert kings" As Dune has been the capital of Anequina since the fall of the old capital Ne Quin-al during the civil war ca 2E 309.

Orcrest: Drelkamerdat (drelkamer + dat) lit "Orc city"

Moonpath: Kha'jaywadro (kha'jay + wadro) lit "Moonpath"

Corinthe: Bajiitjhadat (bajiit + jhadat) "Merchant city" as Corinthe is the main trading hub of central Elsweyr.

Alabaster: Siirto'oda (siirto + oda) "White Fort" Alabaster is built inside of walls of an Ayleid border fort. 

 

Kha'jay siirithse jer wodro (Moons will light your path)

No matter how much I flatten it, the heightmap does not allow for flatter buildings.

Beyond Skyrim has Torval’s concept as a wooden city (think the buildings on stilts). The Mane’s Palace is entirely Bosmer. So I assumed that it would look out of place if Torval had architecture similar to Senchal, as the other palaces are in a similar style to the rest of the city. It just so happens that the Bosmer architecture fits well on the slopes.

I mean, Bruma is entirely Nordic so it would be reasonable that Torval has Bosmer architecture.

However, Torval is a city-state in a similar vein to Monaco and it has swallowed up the neighbouring areas like Beausoleil. So, the villages outside Torval will be a part of Torval but as they are on flatter ground, flatter buildings can be used.

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You could make the city a separate worldspace, like you did with the upper district of Senchal, to mitigate the heightmap problem somewhat.

While I do agree that Torval should be a (mostly) wooden city,  the Lunar temple (as it looks strange having large domes and tall thin towers made of wood) and the walls would be built of stone.

Also you would have to change the Bosmer architecture to fit the khajiit of Torval without making it South-east Asian / tribal Bosmer. 

Another aspect of this is that Beyond Skyrim depict the khajiit (and Pelletine in particular) as very South-east Asian, like ESO (that is so not khajiit in my opinion (and also goes against both Iliana's and your depictions of Elsweyr)). 

 

I applaud that you didn't jump on the ESO bandwagon like so many others, but instead trying to keep Iliana's legacy alive by expanding on her depiction of Elsweyr (that is way more lore-friendly then that ESO crap).

A final question: Will you include the Mane in the mod?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ahnassi said:

You could make the city a separate worldspace, like you did with the upper district of Senchal, to mitigate the heightmap problem somewhat.

While I do agree that Torval should be a (mostly) wooden city,  the Lunar temple (as it looks strange having large domes and tall thin towers made of wood) and the walls would be built of stone.

Also you would have to change the Bosmer architecture to fit the khajiit of Torval without making it South-east Asian / tribal Bosmer. 

Another aspect of this is that Beyond Skyrim depict the khajiit (and Pelletine in particular) as very South-east Asian, like ESO (that is so not khajiit in my opinion (and also goes against both Iliana's and your depictions of Elsweyr)). 

 

I applaud that you didn't jump on the ESO bandwagon like so many others, but instead trying to keep Iliana's legacy alive by expanding on her depiction of Elsweyr (that is way more lore-friendly then that ESO crap).

A final question: Will you include the Mane in the mod?

The only reason why Senchal's upper district is in a separate worldspace is only because there were serious FPS issues when I added the upper district. The heightmap ended up behaving when I put Senchal in. :P

The buildings that I currently use are from Valenwood Islands. This video shows them in a better light. I could find a way to retexture/recolour them so that they're the best of both Bosmer and Khajiit cultures.

Alternatively, I can mess with the heightmap a lot more and have Torval be a divided city - the eastern side would be more Pelletine and the sectors closer to Valenwood would be pure (Valenwood Islands style) Bosmer.

The Mane would be a challenge to get right, so not sure. Hence why the Mane's Palace won't be next version.

Edited by Envy123

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Khajiit and the Bosmer have been enemies since the beginning of time, having fought many war against each other, the latest in 3E 396 in which the Bosmer attacked Torval and killed more then one thousand khajiit. So I can't see that the khajiit would allow any Bosmer to live in or around Torval, also non-khajiit would be barred from the upper city and the moon sugar estates of the nobles of Pelletine.

I've looked at the video and I think that the buildings would fit better for a small village / tribe in the jungle. You could use it for lower class buildings located outside the walls. It doesn't look imposing enough as architecture for Torval, the capital of Elsweyr.

 

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10 hours ago, Ahnassi said:

Khajiit and the Bosmer have been enemies since the beginning of time, having fought many war against each other, the latest in 3E 396 in which the Bosmer attacked Torval and killed more then one thousand khajiit. So I can't see that the khajiit would allow any Bosmer to live in or around Torval, also non-khajiit would be barred from the upper city and the moon sugar estates of the nobles of Pelletine.

I've looked at the video and I think that the buildings would fit better for a small village / tribe in the jungle. You could use it for lower class buildings located outside the walls. It doesn't look imposing enough as architecture for Torval, the capital of Elsweyr.

 

In that case, I'll just keep one sector outside the city walls to only be for the exiled Bosmer. The rest of the exiled Bosmer will be on the island near Valenwood and one tribal village right outside.

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1 hour ago, DarkPhoenixFF4 said:

By the way, I just wanted to bring this to your attention, Envy.  Response doesn't really matter (as I said there, I dumped it anyway), but I did want to inform you of it just in case.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5189505-elsweyr-pelletine-senchal/?p=57754576

Yes, I'm aware of it and I'll fix it before the next release.

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Posted (edited)

Something I had considered ages ago when you asked for advice about Torval's geography that I forgot to suggest, @Envy123 ....

What if you designed "Khajiit warrens" for the lower class/some of the middle-class "district" houses, where there's a surface entrance, but the dwellings are underground and carved into sandstone/rock? That would conserve space for the upper district/palace.

Edited by puddles

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, puddles said:

Something I had considered ages ago when you asked for advice about Torval's geography that I forgot to suggest, @Envy123 ....

What if you designed "Khajiit warrens" for the lower class/some of the middle-class "district" houses, where there's a surface entrance, but the dwellings are underground and carved into sandstone/rock? That would conserve space for the upper district/palace.

Playing around with the heightmap a lot more, I managed to fit another sector in there.

Overall, Torval will have 6 sectors, including the Mane's Palace, which I think are sufficient for the capital city.

Architecture-wise, you get Bosmer architecture outside the city walls and inside the city walls, you get retextured Senchal/Corinthe architecture. I'm going for the colour scheme of browns, greys and oranges, as that's how I envisioned Torval to be like.

 

Edited by Envy123

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I've done most of the interiors and NPCs for Torval and yet to finish some of the interiors for the misc locations. Then, I will do path-grids and AI packages and it will be ready for release, most likely by the end of next week.

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14 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

Looking good!

Thank you :)

Turns out that Iliana's Corinthe has 59 interiors but my Torval has only 42 at the moment. This week's release will then only have Torval released in part.

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Posted (edited)

Alright - I'm currently packaging up the third release. It includes:

  • The city of Torval, excluding the Mane's Palace.
  • The village of Darvulk Haven.
  • The full road between Corinthe/Senchal and Torval.
  • Three new player homes - one in Torval, another in Darvulk Haven and the other one in Senchal (a starter home).
  • The entire peninsula itself is fully populated by locations - except that the Halls of the Colossus have no interiors yet.
  • The merchants in Senchal should lock up now.
  • The Senchal Palace has a harem now, but at the moment, it's mainly for show.
  • A newly expanded coral reef west of Senchal which transitions into Torval's sea.
  • Tropical water for a good chunk of the peninsula.

I have left to do the Mane's Palace, Halls of the Colossus, the village of Portneu View, the road between Torval and Skingrad and the locations to populate Western Elsweyr. Once the world is done, I can then start implementing the necessary quests.

Edited by Envy123

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Looks good for the most part, however some things could be improved. Torval doesn't look like a city, rather a collection of towns as most of the district are too far away from eachother because of the terrain. In several places the road is so steep that the player needs to spam jump to get up the hill. A major rework of the lanscape in the Torval area is needed or to make Torval a closed city ( like the vanilla cities) to get around the lanscape problem. Also I don't think that Darvulk Haven should be a Bosmer town. There is also a missing texture on the free-standing tower in Torval's "Entrance district".

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4 hours ago, Ahnassi said:

Looks good for the most part, however some things could be improved. Torval doesn't look like a city, rather a collection of towns as most of the district are too far away from eachother because of the terrain. In several places the road is so steep that the player needs to spam jump to get up the hill. A major rework of the lanscape in the Torval area is needed or to make Torval a closed city ( like the vanilla cities) to get around the lanscape problem. Also I don't think that Darvulk Haven should be a Bosmer town. There is also a missing texture on the free-standing tower in Torval's "Entrance district".

No matter how I flatten the landscape, Torval’s structure on the heightmap just doesn’t allow for a city like Senchal or Corinthe. Even if I was to make Torval a closed city, this would also be a problem. 

So, I settled for something similar to Russian “krais” - a collection of towns to form one city-state. I’ll only soften the actual roads and fix the missing texture issue, but the structure would remain the same.

Darvulk Haven - I already settled on the structure and architecture and so it will not change.

Sorry it’s not the news that you were hoping for, but I want this mod to be complete and if I was to re-do Torval and Darvulk Haven, a complete Elsweyr may not see the light of day. I work differently to most folks and it does get results, and I would have to accept that I won’t please everybody. And there are certain things in Anequina that I wished were different too, like the Dune player home essentially being a shoebox.

Like I said, I will fix the roads and the texture issue and I thank you for it. I see where you’re coming from regarding the others, but I am unfortunately not going to change them.

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