Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • AndalayBay

      Orphan Attachments   07/31/2018

      I have been doing some housekeeping lately and I've noticed that I had a lot of orphaned attachments. Attachments get orphaned when the PM or post is deleted without removing the attachment first. Deleting a PM or post does not delete the attachment and the file or image remain on the server. I'd like to ask all members to go through their attachments and delete any attachments you don't need anymore or those that have been orphaned. Where can I get a list of my attachments? Click on your display name in the upper right corner of the forums and pick "My Attachments" from the drop-down list. How can I tell an attachment is orphaned? If the PM has been deleted, you'll see a message like this in your attachment list: Unfortunately there is no message if the post has been deleted, so please check your old posts. We do purge old birthday threads every once in a while. Also some hosted projects have been shut down, so you may have orphaned attachments on one of those locations. Thanks!
AndalayBay

Northern UI Feedback

Recommended Posts

Ok, got it to crash by going back to an earlier save. Your crash logger didn't catch it. I'm wondering if it's the local map that's causing it to crash. I'm running around Bruma, wasting time while waiting for a quest to move forward, so I'm clearing all the unexplored areas from the local map. I had already cleared those areas when I loaded up a slightly later save in the previous post. Now with the areas unexplored, it's crashing as soon as I reach the boundary between explored and unexplored.

Here's the Windows crash dump, such as it is:

Spoiler

Log Name:      Application
Source:        Windows Error Reporting
Date:          08/11/2018 9:14:20 PM
Event ID:      1001
Task Category: None
Level:         Information
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      Lori-PC
Description:
Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: BEX
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: Oblivion.exe
P2: 1.2.0.416
P3: 462392c7
P4: StackHash_e98d
P5: 0.0.0.0
P6: 00000000
P7: 00000000
P8: c0000005
P9: 00000008
P10:

Attached files:

These files may be available here:
C:\Users\Lori\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppCrash_Oblivion.exe_b45f53dcdbce8af415fcca03273998c77ffe842_089e1e30

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report Id: 235a53d8-e3c5-11e8-89dd-54271e32917f
Report Status: 0
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Windows Error Reporting" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="0">1001</EventID>
    <Level>4</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-11-09T02:14:20.000000000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>564428</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>Lori-PC</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>0</Data>
    <Data>BEX</Data>
    <Data>Not available</Data>
    <Data>0</Data>
    <Data>Oblivion.exe</Data>
    <Data>1.2.0.416</Data>
    <Data>462392c7</Data>
    <Data>StackHash_e98d</Data>
    <Data>0.0.0.0</Data>
    <Data>00000000</Data>
    <Data>00000000</Data>
    <Data>c0000005</Data>
    <Data>00000008</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>C:\Users\Lori\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppCrash_Oblivion.exe_b45f53dcdbce8af415fcca03273998c77ffe842_089e1e30</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>0</Data>
    <Data>235a53d8-e3c5-11e8-89dd-54271e32917f</Data>
    <Data>0</Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>

Here's the report.wer:

Spoiler

Version=1
EventType=BEX
EventTime=131862032486244871
ReportType=2
Consent=1
ReportIdentifier=235a53d9-e3c5-11e8-89dd-54271e32917f
IntegratorReportIdentifier=235a53d8-e3c5-11e8-89dd-54271e32917f
WOW64=1
Response.type=4
Sig[0].Name=Application Name
Sig[0].Value=Oblivion.exe
Sig[1].Name=Application Version
Sig[1].Value=1.2.0.416
Sig[2].Name=Application Timestamp
Sig[2].Value=462392c7
Sig[3].Name=Fault Module Name
Sig[3].Value=StackHash_e98d
Sig[4].Name=Fault Module Version
Sig[4].Value=0.0.0.0
Sig[5].Name=Fault Module Timestamp
Sig[5].Value=00000000
Sig[6].Name=Exception Offset
Sig[6].Value=00000000
Sig[7].Name=Exception Code
Sig[7].Value=c0000005
Sig[8].Name=Exception Data
Sig[8].Value=00000008
DynamicSig[1].Name=OS Version
DynamicSig[1].Value=6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
DynamicSig[2].Name=Locale ID
DynamicSig[2].Value=4105
DynamicSig[22].Name=Additional Information 1
DynamicSig[22].Value=e98d
DynamicSig[23].Name=Additional Information 2
DynamicSig[23].Value=e98dfca8bcf81bc1740adb135579ad53
DynamicSig[24].Name=Additional Information 3
DynamicSig[24].Value=6eab
DynamicSig[25].Name=Additional Information 4
DynamicSig[25].Value=6eabdd9e0dc94904be3b39a1c0583635
UI[2]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe
UI[3]=Oblivion has stopped working
UI[4]=Windows can check online for a solution to the problem.
UI[5]=Check online for a solution and close the program
UI[6]=Check online for a solution later and close the program
UI[7]=Close the program
LoadedModule[0]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe
LoadedModule[1]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
LoadedModule[2]=C:\Windows\syswow64\kernel32.dll
LoadedModule[3]=C:\Windows\syswow64\KERNELBASE.dll
LoadedModule[4]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_5.82.7601.18837_none_ec86b8d6858ec0bc\COMCTL32.dll
LoadedModule[5]=C:\Windows\syswow64\ADVAPI32.dll
LoadedModule[6]=C:\Windows\syswow64\msvcrt.dll
LoadedModule[7]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\sechost.dll
LoadedModule[8]=C:\Windows\syswow64\RPCRT4.dll
LoadedModule[9]=C:\Windows\syswow64\SspiCli.dll
LoadedModule[10]=C:\Windows\syswow64\CRYPTBASE.dll
LoadedModule[11]=C:\Windows\syswow64\GDI32.dll
LoadedModule[12]=C:\Windows\syswow64\USER32.dll
LoadedModule[13]=C:\Windows\syswow64\LPK.dll
LoadedModule[14]=C:\Windows\syswow64\USP10.dll
LoadedModule[15]=C:\Windows\system32\DINPUT8.dll
LoadedModule[16]=C:\Windows\system32\WINMM.dll
LoadedModule[17]=C:\Windows\system32\DSOUND.dll
LoadedModule[18]=C:\Windows\syswow64\ole32.dll
LoadedModule[19]=C:\Windows\system32\POWRPROF.dll
LoadedModule[20]=C:\Windows\syswow64\SETUPAPI.dll
LoadedModule[21]=C:\Windows\syswow64\CFGMGR32.dll
LoadedModule[22]=C:\Windows\syswow64\OLEAUT32.dll
LoadedModule[23]=C:\Windows\syswow64\DEVOBJ.dll
LoadedModule[24]=D:\Games\Oblivion\binkw32.dll
LoadedModule[25]=C:\Windows\syswow64\SHELL32.dll
LoadedModule[26]=C:\Windows\syswow64\SHLWAPI.dll
LoadedModule[27]=C:\Windows\system32\VERSION.dll
LoadedModule[28]=C:\Windows\system32\d3dx9_27.dll
LoadedModule[29]=C:\Windows\system32\WSOCK32.dll
LoadedModule[30]=C:\Windows\syswow64\WS2_32.dll
LoadedModule[31]=C:\Windows\syswow64\NSI.dll
LoadedModule[32]=C:\Windows\system32\apphelp.dll
LoadedModule[33]=C:\Windows\AppPatch\AcGenral.DLL
LoadedModule[34]=C:\Windows\system32\UxTheme.dll
LoadedModule[35]=C:\Windows\system32\samcli.dll
LoadedModule[36]=C:\Windows\system32\MSACM32.dll
LoadedModule[37]=C:\Windows\system32\sfc.dll
LoadedModule[38]=C:\Windows\system32\sfc_os.DLL
LoadedModule[39]=C:\Windows\syswow64\USERENV.dll
LoadedModule[40]=C:\Windows\syswow64\profapi.dll
LoadedModule[41]=C:\Windows\system32\dwmapi.dll
LoadedModule[42]=C:\Windows\syswow64\urlmon.dll
LoadedModule[43]=C:\Windows\syswow64\api-ms-win-downlevel-ole32-l1-1-0.dll
LoadedModule[44]=C:\Windows\syswow64\api-ms-win-downlevel-shlwapi-l1-1-0.dll
LoadedModule[45]=C:\Windows\syswow64\api-ms-win-downlevel-advapi32-l1-1-0.dll
LoadedModule[46]=C:\Windows\syswow64\api-ms-win-downlevel-user32-l1-1-0.dll
LoadedModule[47]=C:\Windows\syswow64\api-ms-win-downlevel-version-l1-1-0.dll
LoadedModule[48]=C:\Windows\syswow64\api-ms-win-downlevel-normaliz-l1-1-0.dll
LoadedModule[49]=C:\Windows\syswow64\normaliz.DLL
LoadedModule[50]=C:\Windows\syswow64\iertutil.dll
LoadedModule[51]=C:\Windows\syswow64\WININET.dll
LoadedModule[52]=C:\Windows\system32\MPR.dll
LoadedModule[53]=C:\Windows\system32\IMM32.DLL
LoadedModule[54]=C:\Windows\syswow64\MSCTF.dll
LoadedModule[55]=D:\Games\Oblivion\obse_1_2_416.dll
LoadedModule[56]=D:\Games\Oblivion\dbghelp.dll
LoadedModule[57]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\CobbCrashLogger.dll
LoadedModule[58]=C:\Windows\system32\api-ms-win-core-synch-l1-2-0.DLL
LoadedModule[59]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\ConScribe.dll
LoadedModule[60]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\CustomSpellIcons.dll
LoadedModule[61]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\Elys_USV.dll
LoadedModule[62]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\EngineBugFixes.dll
LoadedModule[63]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\FastExit2.dll
LoadedModule[64]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\MenuQue.dll
LoadedModule[65]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\obse\plugins\MenuQue\Submodule.Game.dll
LoadedModule[66]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\NorthernUI.dll
LoadedModule[67]=C:\Windows\system32\XINPUT9_1_0.dll
LoadedModule[68]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dll
LoadedModule[69]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.7601.18837_none_41e855142bd5705d\comctl32.dll
LoadedModule[70]=C:\Windows\syswow64\CLBCatQ.DLL
LoadedModule[71]=C:\Windows\system32\propsys.dll
LoadedModule[72]=C:\Windows\system32\ntmarta.dll
LoadedModule[73]=C:\Windows\syswow64\WLDAP32.dll
LoadedModule[74]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dlx
LoadedModule[75]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\OBSE_Elys_Uncapper.dll
LoadedModule[76]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\obse_jail_fix.dll
LoadedModule[77]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\obse_training_fix.dll
LoadedModule[78]=C:\Windows\system32\MSVCP100.dll
LoadedModule[79]=C:\Windows\system32\MSVCR100.dll
LoadedModule[80]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\open_cities.dll
LoadedModule[81]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\RuntimeDebugger.dll
LoadedModule[82]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\ComponentDLLs\RUDE\Debugger.dll
LoadedModule[83]=C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\MSCOREE.DLL
LoadedModule[84]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.6161_none_50934f2ebcb7eb57\MSVCR90.dll
LoadedModule[85]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.6161_none_50934f2ebcb7eb57\msvcm90.dll
LoadedModule[86]=C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\mscoreei.dll
LoadedModule[87]=D:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\RuntimeEditorIDs.dll
LoadedModule[88]=C:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth Software\SysWOW64\BtMmHook.dll
LoadedModule[89]=C:\Windows\syswow64\PSAPI.DLL
LoadedModule[90]=C:\Windows\system32\HID.DLL
LoadedModule[91]=C:\Windows\syswow64\WINTRUST.dll
LoadedModule[92]=C:\Windows\syswow64\CRYPT32.dll
LoadedModule[93]=C:\Windows\syswow64\MSASN1.dll
LoadedModule[94]=C:\Windows\System32\MMDevApi.dll
LoadedModule[95]=C:\Windows\system32\AUDIOSES.DLL
LoadedModule[96]=C:\Windows\system32\D3D9.DLL
LoadedModule[97]=C:\Windows\system32\d3d8thk.dll
LoadedModule[98]=C:\Windows\system32\D3DREF9.DLL
LoadedModule[99]=C:\Windows\system32\aticfx32.dll
LoadedModule[100]=C:\Windows\system32\atiu9pag.dll
LoadedModule[101]=C:\Windows\system32\atiumdag.dll
LoadedModule[102]=C:\Windows\system32\atiumdva.dll
LoadedModule[103]=C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\mscorwks.dll
LoadedModule[104]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.vc80.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_8.0.50727.6229_none_d089f796442de10e\MSVCR80.dll
LoadedModule[105]=C:\Windows\assembly\NativeImages_v2.0.50727_32\mscorlib\7a02999e99bdbc5c868eb509a3a2a269\mscorlib.ni.dll
LoadedModule[106]=C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\mscorjit.dll
LoadedModule[107]=C:\Windows\system32\CRYPTSP.dll
LoadedModule[108]=C:\Windows\system32\rsaenh.dll
LoadedModule[109]=C:\Windows\assembly\NativeImages_v2.0.50727_32\System\b4f5d656f48ff93189156f5b53a651c0\System.ni.dll
LoadedModule[110]=C:\Windows\assembly\NativeImages_v2.0.50727_32\System.Drawing\cefe5d5ebf5041efcc35755278676075\System.Drawing.ni.dll
LoadedModule[111]=C:\Windows\assembly\NativeImages_v2.0.50727_32\System.Windows.Forms\d387b149f5e8abb19098d3563ad5c911\System.Windows.Forms.ni.dll
LoadedModule[112]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.gdiplus_6595b64144ccf1df_1.1.7601.24203_none_5c030043a0118fbf\gdiplus.dll
LoadedModule[113]=C:\Windows\system32\WindowsCodecs.dll
LoadedModule[114]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\quartz.dll
LoadedModule[115]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\devenum.dll
LoadedModule[116]=C:\Windows\system32\DShowRdpFilter.dll
LoadedModule[117]=C:\Windows\system32\WTSAPI32.dll
LoadedModule[118]=C:\Windows\system32\WINSTA.dll
LoadedModule[119]=C:\Windows\system32\slc.dll
LoadedModule[120]=C:\Windows\SysWow64\L3CODECX.AX
LoadedModule[121]=C:\Windows\system32\msdmo.dll
LoadedModule[122]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\qasf.dll
LoadedModule[123]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\mp3dmod.dll
LoadedModule[124]=C:\Windows\system32\mfplat.DLL
LoadedModule[125]=C:\Windows\system32\AVRT.dll
LoadedModule[126]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\l3codeca.acm
LoadedModule[127]=C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msmpeg2adec.dll
LoadedModule[128]=C:\Windows\system32\wdmaud.drv
LoadedModule[129]=C:\Windows\system32\ksuser.dll
LoadedModule[130]=C:\Windows\system32\msacm32.drv
LoadedModule[131]=C:\Windows\system32\midimap.dll
FriendlyEventName=Stopped working
ConsentKey=BEX
AppName=Oblivion
AppPath=D:\Games\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You list Display Stats as being compatible, but DS requires that you pick the UI you're using. It uses font 2 and 3, but your version of the menu doesn't specify the font. Which UI should I pick? I installed DS when I switched to Darnified and now the DS magic popup menu is unreadable due to the font it's using. Can you create a patch for Display Stats or tell me which UI would work best?

Edit: I realized after posting that that I had to pick vanilla as I had reverted the fonts to vanilla. Here's a screenshot of what it looks like:

ScreenShot53.jpg

The game crashed again after a good play session. The usual BEX with no details. Your crash logger didn't kick in.

Edited by AndalayBay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another BEX crash. This time after leaving an interior and attempting to mount my horse. That's unusual as Oblivion goes. This is getting frustrating. I'm playing this game instance because it's the first time I've used a couple of quest mods that I'm curious about. Anyway here are the details, such as they are. I didn't grab all the extra stuff from Windows event viewer as I'm sure they are the same as before.

Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:	BEX
  Application Name:	Oblivion.exe
  Application Version:	1.2.0.416
  Application Timestamp:	462392c7
  Fault Module Name:	StackHash_e98d
  Fault Module Version:	0.0.0.0
  Fault Module Timestamp:	00000000
  Exception Offset:	00000000
  Exception Code:	c0000005
  Exception Data:	00000008
  OS Version:	6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:	4105
  Additional Information 1:	e98d
  Additional Information 2:	e98dfca8bcf81bc1740adb135579ad53
  Additional Information 3:	6eab
  Additional Information 4:	6eabdd9e0dc94904be3b39a1c0583635

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Microsoft's documentation for this is literal, actual garbage insofar as anything that doesn't exist when it should could be called literal, actual garbage. Some further Google searching indicates that this crash may be part of Microsoft Windows' Data Execution Prevention feature, and that disabling DEP for a program may allow that program to actually crash normally, in a manner that gives me some bloody address to work with. DEP can normally be disabled for specific programs (instructions), but sometimes, Windows just gives you the finger and refuses without telling you why, leaving you with no recourse but to disable it system-wide. This advice is, again, speculative, because Microsoft has apparently refused or simply not bothered to document any of this despite the plethora of BEX crashes that people have reported all over the Internet.

Please keep in mind that I would absolutely like to fix this for you and make my software better, and I am beyond furious that Microsoft is actively undermining SetUnhandledExceptionFilter, the one thing that would get me any useful debugging information, at every turn.

Edited by DavidJCobb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did that already. As soon as I started getting these crashes, I did some searching and found the so-called work-around. I even documented it here so that I didn't have to go hunting for the instructions again. I even mention in that thread that I need to mention them to you when I started to suspect Northern UI. :P

I haven't tried disabling DEP completely. I'm keeping my display drivers old to coincide with my graphics card. I've found in the past that if I upgrade them, they don't work as well with an old card.

I wouldn't even suspect NUI if it wasn't for the frequency of the crashes. My other game instances aren't like this. I'll disable DEP completely and see if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be clear: the crashes occur when opening the local map, while using it, or just while walking around? Your wording leads me to assume the first of those three, but I'd like you to be explicit if possible.

Also, if it occurs when opening the local map, is the crash limited to the very first time it's opened during a play session, or have you had crashes on other openings as well? Oblivion has a weird bug where the very first time the local map is opened, it can fail to render (depending on the UI, positioning, blah blah blah); I patch that by just forcing the game to redraw the map two frames in a row, the first time it needs to be drawn. If you only get a crash the very first time the map is opened, then I know where to focus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just running around. I check the local map for an unexplored area, then I close it and run towards that area. As I approached the unexplored area, it crashed. That was an unusual circumstance. The crashes usually happen when I’m going into a new load zone, like entering or leaving an interior. The really odd bit is that the crashes stopped when I uninstalled NUI and installed Darnified. I was able to finish exploring the city. When I reinstalled NUI later, it was fine. I was able to run around the now fully explored city without issue. In order to reproduce the crashes I had previously, I went back to a saved game that I had made just before exploring the city.

I’ve never had the game crash when I open the map, local or world.

I’ve disabled DEP and so far, the game hasn’t crashed. I think I’ll go back to that save that’s guaranteed to crash and see if we can get some useful info now that I’ve disabled DEP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even with DEP disabled completely, I still get zeroes in the BEX crash:

Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:	BEX
  Application Name:	Oblivion.exe
  Application Version:	1.2.0.416
  Application Timestamp:	462392c7
  Fault Module Name:	StackHash_e98d
  Fault Module Version:	0.0.0.0
  Fault Module Timestamp:	00000000
  Exception Offset:	00000000
  Exception Code:	c0000005
  Exception Data:	00000008
  OS Version:	6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:	4105
  Additional Information 1:	e98d
  Additional Information 2:	e98dfca8bcf81bc1740adb135579ad53
  Additional Information 3:	6eab
  Additional Information 4:	6eabdd9e0dc94904be3b39a1c0583635

Your crash logger didn't kick in either.

Btw, my HUD Status Bars configuration works with Northern UI. I'm only using HSB to display the date and time at the bottom of the screen. HSB is infinitely configurable so I imagine people could get it working if they wanted something displayed, even if the style doesn't match NUI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played for a while tonight and no crashes.Perhaps disabling DEP fixed my problem. I won't be able to play for the rest of the weekend, perhaps Sunday evening, but I might be too tired. At any rate, I'll post an update when I get back to playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crashes seem to have stopped. I don't know if that's because I disabled DEP or the fix you made in an attempt to collect the crash information. Very weird nonetheless. I do have some feedback about NUI though. Not all the map markers are showing up:

MissingMapMarkers.jpg

There are lots of features, like farms and rune stones. Also Ayleid wells, but that might be an extra added by Map Marker Overhaul. I honestly can't remember. Another oddity is the empty container indicator. If I enter a cell with an empty container, it correctly shows as empty, even a corpse. However if I empty a container in a cell, it never shows as empty until I leave the cell and return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally got a crash when I was changing interior cells. Usual BEX with no details and your crash logger didn't catch it.

These are infrequent enough now that I can just chalk them up to typical Oblivion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've gotten a few more crashes, but same stuff as before. I also discovered that some of the missing map markers have shown up now that I uninstalled Map Marker Overhaul. If you used the regular Oblivion convention for map marker icons, I think NUI would be compatible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

I also discovered that some of the missing map markers have shown up now that I uninstalled Map Marker Overhaul. If you used the regular Oblivion convention for map marker icons, I think NUI would be compatible.

Map Marker Overhaul appears to work the same way, and have the same compatibility issue, as Dynamic Map, which makes sense given that they're by the same author. (I'm guessing that disappearing markers stem from the overhaul disabling vanilla markers and trying, and failing, to add its own replacements.) I may be able to use a similar fix at least for getting the TNO map markers to appear in the map: I just let the script's MenuQue commands fail outright, and do the work myself from inside of the DLL if I detect TNO's ESP file. Further configuration options (e.g. the ability to have different handlers for fast-travel depending on whether you held Ctrl while clicking) would require more work; as far as you know, are those features that many people would actually care about?

*sigh* I really wish MenuQue hadn't required scripters to use absolute tile paths. I'm not saying this, like, as if I think it's a personal failing on anyone's part or anything -- this stuff was made ages ago and when you're working with something new, it's normal not to think very far ahead -- but if MenuQue had allowed the selection of a tile by name or if literally any script author had had the foresight to, say, store tile paths in an external file and load that file by script instead of hardcoding all tile paths into their source code and breaking compatibility with any UI change, then this problem would be so much easier to deal with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was referring to the textures\menus\map part. That's the original texture path. MMO does have its own path for the mod specific stuff, but it uses the vanilla path for the icons. MMO does a ton of stuff, so I suggest making NUI compatible if that's possible. Personally, I use these features:

  • coloured icons. The icons for Oblivion gates automatically change once you've closed the gate.
  • adjust marker discovery distance
  • all the additional icons - Ayleid Wells, Wayshrines, Doom Stones, Rune Stones, houses, docks, castles...
  • add custom markers in-game
  • add notes or tags to existing markers. You can ctrl+click on a marker to bring up a menu with a variety of options. I use it to mark a dungeon as being done which changes the name of the dungeon, like Skyrim, and also adds a superscript C to the icon.
  • purge cell buffers before Fast Travel

There's also an option to move the map markers closer to the place they mark which I don't use currently. Plus a bunch of settings for controlling fast travel and immersive map, which I also don't use.

MenuQue does have an option to omit the name in the component path, but I'm not sure that would help much. From the documentation:

Quote

First is the component path, with these functions it is now possible to access an individual element not through its exact name but by using its index. It works by substituting the name within the component path with a hash character followed by a number (e.g. name#nth). The name can be omitted to accept all components regardless of their names. And "nth" is the index of the desired component within its parent's list. The indexing starts at 1. To iterate in reverse direction (from bottom-to-top) negative values can be used.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

MMO does a ton of stuff, so I suggest making NUI compatible if that's possible.

I'm looking into it, but the mod's scripts are minimally commented. I'm not fluent in ObScript or OBSE-extended ObScript, so while I can read it, I hate reading it. Compared to the cleanly-organized ObXP source code, Map Marker Overhaul is... not newcomer-friendly. It also suffers from some really bad feature bloat.

The latest version appears to be missing files... Unless Oblivion's game engine is okay with just straight-up making new map markers, MMO would have to insert map marker elements somewhere. It has code to do that (in a semi-consistent fashion with Dynamic Map), but that relies on InsertXML calls referencing files that aren't present, and I can't find any calls that would actually trigger that cod anyway (it runs on SetStage 20, and searches for "setstage" in the entire ESP file yield no setstage calls). I haven't tried running it in vanilla yet, but I'm not confident it'd even work.

The core functionality of Map Marker Overhaul is based on manipulating preplaced map markers -- enabling or disabling them to show and hide them as appropriate, such as disabling Oblivion Gate markers when the gates aren't open. It's also capable of changing the map marker types of existing markers (handled by its faux-INI files), and it's capable of letting the player set map markers using spawned references (with code for this scattered across about five different scripts, few of them purpose-built and one of them dependent on files that aren't in the mod).

Which leads to two conclusions, here:

  • You say that some map marker icons disappeared when using Map Marker Overhaul. This would imply that it was disabling vanilla map markers and then replacing them with scripted, MenuQue-based icons, which failed to render due to menu structure changes I had made. However, I can find no code to explain this. I can't even find any working, in-use code that would generate scripted, MenuQue-based icons.
     
  • If I really need to be "compatible" with Map Marker Overhaul, it would almost be better to just build my own damn implementation entirely within the DLL and tell people to use it instead. This may be within my ability, but it would be a large investment of time.

My hands are sort of tied here.

Edited by DavidJCobb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you changed your code to use the textures\menus\icons\map path, then I think you'd be compatible with MMO. You'll have to use textures\menus50\icons\map and textures\menus80\icons\map as well, unfortunately. I don't think mipmaps work for the map icons, so you need the extra folders to support different resolutions. Then you can let MMO do its thing. Those paths are the same as the original game, which means that putting files in those directories will properly override the original game icons as well. The other UI's just use the original path and MMO is compatible with them.

I'm a pretty good scripter, but I've never been able to sort through TNO's code either. He does find ways to make things very complicated!

Edited by AndalayBay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If you changed your code to use the

textures\menus\icons\map path,

Wait, what?

...Oh. I get it.

Map Marker Overhaul modifies the marker types. The marker types are numbers, and math is performed on these numbers in order to crop the map marker texture. If the numbers are "out of range," as it were, then the crop area would be outside of the image, and in theory this would yield a blank graphic... making the markers "disappear." This wouldn't even be a scripted issue; just a visual one.

I could switch the texture path and overwrite the vanilla icon file, but that would mean that people would get vanilla map marker icons when using MMO. Given that MMO just enlarges the image size and adds new icons to that space, I could modify my icon file to just... have extended icons, which will go unused without MMO and should slot in cleanly with MMO. I can't modify MMO's icons (closed permissions), but I could draw by eye in some cases and use Skyrim icons as a reference in others.

Mind if I send you the final file for testing purposes? You'd want to slot it into Menus\NorthernUI\icons\map.dds.

Edited by DavidJCobb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually TNO is pretty open about permissions. He doesn't say it in his mod files, but I know from working with him. If you send him a note on Nexus, he might reply. I know the last time I talked to him, he's married with kids and is just too busy for games. You'll find a few mods on Nexus where people have modified one of TNO's mods.

Yes, I can help test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could get permissions to use TNO's icons, but I just finished drawing new icons by hand, lol.

A reinstall of MMO shouldn't be needed if I'm right about your "disappearing" icons just being invisible.

For now, please overwrite Menus\NorthernUI\icons\map.dds with this file:

map_icons_all.dds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I don't understand what you're trying to do. :P What do you mean by overwrite map.dds with map_icons_all.dds? I took that to mean delete map.dds and use map_icons_all.dds instead. Well map_icons_all.dds is in the wrong folder if you want to overwrite TNO's stuff. Anyway I reinstalled MMO and now I have no icons. There's also something wrong with your zoom out icon. I circled it.

ScreenShot67.jpg

Edit: Also you can't override TNO's stuff because people will install it after your mod, as is the convention with these types of mods. So yeah, not sure what you're up to. :lol:

 

Edited by AndalayBay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to tackle things one at a time, so we'll focus on the icons for now.

I saved the file with the wrong name -- hazard of coming back to the map icons so many months after originally making them. (That would be why all your icons are gone now.) I need you to rename the new file (that I uploaded to my last post) to map.dds, and then overwrite Menus\NorthernUI\icons\map.dds with it (or, uh, just put the new file where that file used to be, given that you deleted it). The goal is not to overwrite TNO's icon file at all; the goal isn't even to use TNO's icon file. The goal is to overwrite my file to add the new icons.

I could try messaging TNO about compatibility, but per the Nexus they haven't been online since 2015. If the main problem is icons not displaying, and if the new file fixes that, then my plan is to just put the new file in NorthernUI. Someone installs any version of MMO alongside NorthernUI and they'll have working NorthernUI-themed icons.

Edited by DavidJCobb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I think I get it now. You’re making sure your icon swap works before changing your code to use the default path?

Btw, most of the icons MMO uses aren’t TNO’s. They were created by other people, whom TNO credits. And he’s a he. He lists his real name in his mod readme’s. :D I think it would be really nice if people could use NUI icons with MMO though. If we get this working, I suggest creating a patch for MMO which would supply NUI icons. I suggest doing it as a patch because the installation order would be your mod first, then MMO, so it needs to be a separate package that people would install after installing both mods.

You might want to check out TESCOSI if you’d like to ramp up on installing and using Oblivion mods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×