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      Orphan Attachments   07/31/2018

      I have been doing some housekeeping lately and I've noticed that I had a lot of orphaned attachments. Attachments get orphaned when the PM or post is deleted without removing the attachment first. Deleting a PM or post does not delete the attachment and the file or image remain on the server. I'd like to ask all members to go through their attachments and delete any attachments you don't need anymore or those that have been orphaned. Where can I get a list of my attachments? Click on your display name in the upper right corner of the forums and pick "My Attachments" from the drop-down list. How can I tell an attachment is orphaned? If the PM has been deleted, you'll see a message like this in your attachment list: Unfortunately there is no message if the post has been deleted, so please check your old posts. We do purge old birthday threads every once in a while. Also some hosted projects have been shut down, so you may have orphaned attachments on one of those locations. Thanks!
AndalayBay

Northern UI Feedback

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I got a couple of other little bobbles for you. First the attribute description doesn't show up when you mouse over the plus and minus buttons:

Levelup1.jpg

Levelup2.jpg

Your spell creation menu has some issues:

CustomSpell.jpg

That message is incorrect. I was creating an apprentice level spell (level 2). The Magicka cost is correct.

I would like to use the raised enchanting and spell making limits from Supreme Magicka. SM supplies its own menus for that, but I doubt they would work with NUI. The other UI mods supply alternate menus for Supreme Magicka. Would you consider doing the same?

Edited by AndalayBay

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One of the features of Dynamic Map is that it shows the roads and bridges added by Roads of Cyrodiil. Unfortunately that's not working with NUI. Here's the bridge on the world map with DarkUId Darn:

MissingBridge1.jpg

That's missing with NUI:

MissingBridge2.jpg

MissingBridge3.jpg

Arthmoor adds several new bridges and that's just one example.

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I found another issue with the Alchemy menu. You need a View All button. I'm trying to make a Burden + Damage Health potion and neither one of your Alchemy menus (regular or advanced) will let me do it.

Burden + Damage Health = Fly Amanita Cap + Morning Glory Root Pulp + Any TWO of the following: Peony Seeds, Sacred Lotus Seeds OR St. Jahn's Wort Nectar.

Here's the alchemy menu from DarkUId Darn showing the View All button. Without the View All button, I wouldn't be able to select the last two ingredients:

Alchemy1.jpg

Completed potion:

Alchemy2.jpg

Your advanced menu won't let me pick the last two ingredients:

Alchemy3.jpg

Your basic alchemy menu needs a view all button. Here's the Alchemy Calculator from the UESP. Deselect the SI ingredients to see that recipe.

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Your spell creation menu has some issues:

That should be an issue with the vanilla code. Oblivion writes the string "Requires SKILLNAME skill of VALUE" to the root user3, and writes whether that should be visible to the root user6. I'm quite sure I didn't patch that.

A Restoration skill of 250 doesn't make much sense, though... I could send you an edited menu file that shows the raw values, perhaps? For testing purposes?

Quote

One of the features of Dynamic Map is that it shows the roads and bridges added by Roads of Cyrodiil. Unfortunately that's not working with NUI.

Dynamic Map's definitions file doesn't contain any checks for Roads of Cyrodiil.esp -- at least, not in Dynamic Map v2.1, the version that I have installed.

Quote

Your advanced menu won't let me pick the last two ingredients:

I have a "view all" button; it's the "All Ingredients" category. The problem you're describing is different.

It seems like you're trying to make a potion using undiscovered effects. That's possible in Skyrim (where making potions blindly is how you learn effects in the first place), but it was my understanding that Oblivion's Alchemy system straight-up doesn't let you make potions using undiscovered effects. Is that incorrect? Are you supposed to be able to cook potions blindly in Oblivion?

If that's a requirement, then I can add a checkbox or similar feature to the menu (e.g. "Limit potions to discovered effects"), to let you toggle the item restriction.

Edited by DavidJCobb

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Your spell creation menu has some issues:

That should be an issue with the vanilla code. Oblivion writes the string "Requires SKILLNAME skill of VALUE" to the root user3, and writes whether that should be visible to the root user6. I'm quite sure I didn't patch that.

A Restoration skill of 250 doesn't make much sense, though... I could send you an edited menu file that shows the raw values, perhaps? For testing purposes?

There's definitely something going on because the spell I made is a low level spell. Mind you, I'm using Supreme Magicka which lowers the spell cost of most of the spells in the game and I'd normally being using a menu that allows for SM's raised spell making and enchanting limits. Could you take a look at making your menu compatible? This would have to be an optional menu that people would only use when they're using SM's raised values. Even if you're using SM you may choose to stick with the regular values, but I prefer the higher limits. If you grab my DarkUId Darn BAIN package, you'll see how we normally package these mods. I think the raised limits is just a matter of making a slider wider though, so I don't know what's going on with the level message. Although if you grab that package, you could take a look at the spell making and enchanting menu and see if they are messing with the values.

Quote
Quote

One of the features of Dynamic Map is that it shows the roads and bridges added by Roads of Cyrodiil. Unfortunately that's not working with NUI.

Dynamic Map's definitions file doesn't contain any checks for Roads of Cyrodiil.esp -- at least, not in Dynamic Map v2.1, the version that I have installed.

Yeah it used to be called Roads & Bridges or something like that and Arthmoor renamed it when he took over the mod. Or he created his own version. I don't quite remember. Let me take a look and see how Arthmoor got Dynamic Map updated. He might be doing it in his mod because my other game instance shows the extra roads and bridges with Roads of Cyrodiil and Dynamic Map.

Quote
Quote

Your advanced menu won't let me pick the last two ingredients:

I have a "view all" button; it's the "All Ingredients" category. The problem you're describing is different.

It seems like you're trying to make a potion using undiscovered effects. That's possible in Skyrim (where making potions blindly is how you learn effects in the first place), but it was my understanding that Oblivion's Alchemy system straight-up doesn't let you make potions using undiscovered effects. Is that incorrect? Are you supposed to be able to cook potions blindly in Oblivion?

If that's a requirement, then I can add a checkbox or similar feature to the menu (e.g. "Limit potions to discovered effects"), to let you toggle the item restriction.

I wouldn't be reporting this as an issue if my character's alchemy wasn't sufficient to be able to create that potion! I do check to make sure it's not something on my side before reporting an issue to you. That's why I linked the Alchemy Calculator for you. You put in your character's statistics and the effects you want and it tells you the ingredients you need to create that potion. In this case, the ingredients I'm using are completely unrelated. There is no ingredient that has the two effects, rather the Fly Amanita and Morning Glory Root Pulp supply the Burden effect and the Peony Seeds and Sacred Lotus Seeds supply the Damage Health effect. Here's the UESP page on ingredients.

I said you need a "view all" button on the  basic alchemy menu, then I would have been able to create my potion.

Edited by AndalayBay

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Another incompatibility for you: Custom Spell Icons. From the spell menu, you can normally hit "i" to bring up the icon menu, but that's not working. There's an update to CSI here, but I'll still be using the DLL from CSI. I'll see if the new version works better though.

I'll certainly test any fixes or new releases for you.

Edit: The update doesn't work either.

Edited by AndalayBay

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I've got another potion I can't create, but should be able to.

Damage Health + Damage Magicka + Fire Damage = Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap + Fire Salts + Harrada + Spiddal Stick

If you check these ingredients on the UESP (link above), you'll see that once again two ingredients are supplying the fire damage and the last two are supplying the damage health and damage magicka. You can't limit your algorithm to one effect. I really need this potion, so I'll uninstall NUI temporarily.

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Re: Spellmaking: Confirmed: NorthernUI causes issues with the "required skill" message entirely on its own. Investigating now.

Re: Alchemy: You've given contradictory explanations of the problem, but based on your newer posts, I think I may know what it is?

My understanding of Oblivion alchemy has been that all ingredients need to have some overlap with each other. If you're making a potion with ingredients A, B, C, and D, then all pairs of effects must overlap (i.e. effects AB, BC, and CD). However, it sounds like you're trying to make a potion with two non-overlapping pairs of effects (i.e. AB and CD). In the latest recipe you gave me, Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap and Fire Salts overlap only with each other, and not with Harrada or Spiddal Stick.

The UESP wiki isn't clear on this matter. If this is in fact the misunderstanding here, then the solution would be to allow non-matching ingredients to be selected (so you'd be able to select either the Cap or the Salts when they're non-matching, at which point the other item in the pair would become matching).

If potions can have non-overlapping pairs of effects, please confirm that with me and I can make the relevant XML change. I also need to know what happens if you include a superfluous ingredient (i.e. Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap, Harrada, and Spiddal Stick, where the Cap adds nothing to the potion and would be wasted), i.e. whether items are wasted, whether vanilla Oblivion lets you cook the potion, whether wasted items affect the potion weight, et cetera.

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Re: Spellmaking: Fix implemented and slated for release in the next version. NorthernUI tried to add "." to the end of the sentence, but the game parsed that as the number zero (i.e. a single decimal point with no non-numeric digits).

I had "fixed" this bug before for strings with multiple decimal points or multiple dashes, but I overlooked the case of a single decimal point.

Edited by DavidJCobb

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1 hour ago, DavidJCobb said:

Re: Spellmaking: Confirmed: NorthernUI causes issues with the "required skill" message entirely on its own. Investigating now.

Re: Alchemy: You've given contradictory explanations of the problem, but based on your newer posts, I think I may know what it is?

My understanding of Oblivion alchemy has been that all ingredients need to have some overlap with each other. If you're making a potion with ingredients A, B, C, and D, then all pairs of effects must overlap (i.e. effects AB, BC, and CD). However, it sounds like you're trying to make a potion with two non-overlapping pairs of effects (i.e. AB and CD). In the latest recipe you gave me, Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap and Fire Salts overlap only with each other, and not with Harrada or Spiddal Stick.

The UESP wiki isn't clear on this matter. If this is in fact the misunderstanding here, then the solution would be to allow non-matching ingredients to be selected (so you'd be able to select either the Cap or the Salts when they're non-matching, at which point the other item in the pair would become matching).

If potions can have non-overlapping pairs of effects, please confirm that with me and I can make the relevant XML change. I also need to know what happens if you include a superfluous ingredient (i.e. Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap, Harrada, and Spiddal Stick, where the Cap adds nothing to the potion and would be wasted), i.e. whether items are wasted, whether vanilla Oblivion lets you cook the potion, whether wasted items affect the potion weight, et cetera.

Yes, that’s exactly it. I was having a hard time finding the words to explain and you did that perfectly. :D You can have AB + CD = ABCD. In my case above AB = Burden effect and CD = Damage Health. The minimum amount for creating a potion is two ingredients. The Alchemy Calculator will give you these combinations, but yeah if you aren’t familiar with Oblivion, it might be tricky to use. If you want to do some testing, open the calculator, set your skill to 25 and leave all the equipment at Novice level. Then generate a list of potions with multiple effects. I have a list of favourite potions that I regularly make on each play-through. Here are some examples:

  • Burden + Damage Health
  • Burden + Damage Health + Damage Magicka
  • Burden + Fire Damage
  • Burden + Frost Damage
  • Damage Health + Fire Damage
  • Damage Health + Damage Magicka + Fire Damaga
  • Damage Health + Damage Magicka + Frost Damage

I really don’t know what it would do with superfluous ingredients. I’ll have to try that. I don’t think it will let you pick the ingredient. I’ll try it and will let you know.

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Re. superfluous ingredients: vanilla will let you do it. It wastes the third ingredient. It would be very unlikely you would do that because you know that you need ingredients in pairs. I suspect it would do that with two extra ingredients too. I'll see if I can test that.

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Confirmed. It will  happily let you waste two ingredients. So the only stop is if you have ingredients with nothing in common. You need to have one pair with an effect in common. You can pick a second pair with a completely separate effect. That second pair must have something in common between the two, but doesn't need anything in common with the first pair. It's also possible to combine positive effects, like Restore Health + Restore Magicka. I usually don't bother because the effects restore over a period of time, so they aren't as useful as potions you'll find in the game.

Isn't this fun? :D Perhaps not what you expected when you decided to create a new UI. :P

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Super. I’m at a cat show this weekend, so I may not be able to take a look until Monday.

Regarding Dynamic Map: you can add support for Roads of Cyrodiil manually. Will Northern UI recognize DDS files added via the DM ini file? I can try it now that I’ve configured it.

What about Custom Spell Icon compatibility?

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Map Marker Overhaul should be compatible. NorthernUI parses Dynamic Map's INI file, so it'll recognize whatever's in there. Haven't started on Custom Spell Icon yet.

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I saw that you updated the description for NUI and I'd like to pass along some comments:

  • Oblivion XP Update is compatible ;)
  • MMO doesn't have any files in common with NUI, so there's no need to tell people not to overwrite NUI's files. That will just cause confusion if anybody actually reads your notes. See below for other issues.
  • tell people to pick the Vanilla sub-package for Display Stats. It does override NUI's Magic Popup menu. I might look at making it fully compatible with NUI.
  • Enhanced Economy is compatible. However it will replace the Negotiate menu if people pick the auto haggle option. I just did that and it seems to work fine.
  • Enhanced Hotkeys is compatible.

Here's the Display Stats menu:

Display Stats.jpg

It would be nice to create a NUI version of that. You'd need to modify the menu and the icons with the NUI style. There are three sets of icons for the different resolutions. How does NUI handle different resolutions?

Enhanced Economy with Automatic Haggle

As I said, this works fine, but this might be another menu you might want to give the NUI treatment:

EE auto haggle.jpg

It shows the haggle slider, but that's just to show the settings. The slider doesn't work, nor should it.

Dynamic Map

Partially compatible. Several features not working.

  • default zoom set in Dynamic Map base.ini not working.
  • all the custom map textures added by DDS file listings in Dynamic Map.ini not working

The last point means that the extra roads, trails and bridges added by Roads and Trails and by Roads of Cyrodiil aren't working. Here are the pertinent sections of the ini:

set tnoDM.base to 1
set tnoDM.img to sv_Construct "Road and Trails - N.dds"
set tnoDM.x to 599
set tnoDM.y to 85
set tnoDM.w to 987
set tnoDM.h to 419
SetStage tnoDM 20

set tnoDM.base to 1
set tnoDM.img to sv_Construct "Road and Trails - SW.dds"
set tnoDM.x to 211
set tnoDM.y to 463
set tnoDM.w to 711
set tnoDM.h to 551
SetStage tnoDM 20

set tnoDM.base to 1
set tnoDM.img to sv_Construct "Road and Trails - SE.dds"
set tnoDM.x to 1281
set tnoDM.y to 728
set tnoDM.w to 539
set tnoDM.h to 723
SetStage tnoDM 20

set tnoDM.base to 1
set tnoDM.img to sv_Construct "Road and Trails - II.dds"
set tnoDM.x to 1022
set tnoDM.y to 458
set tnoDM.w to 199
set tnoDM.h to 163
SetStage tnoDM 20

set tnoDM.base to 1
set tnoDM.mod to sv_Construct "Roads of Cyrodiil - 1.dds"
set tnoDM.x to 200
set tnoDM.y to 326
set tnoDM.w to 1523
set tnoDM.h to 1072
SetStage tnoDM 20

set tnoDM.base to 1
set tnoDM.mod to sv_Construct "Roads of Cyrodiil - 2.dds"
set tnoDM.x to 294
set tnoDM.y to 448
set tnoDM.w to 504
set tnoDM.h to 435
SetStage tnoDM 20

Base means that DM wants to modify the base map. It will insert those textures into the map. We also use DM to set the default zoom, which would be 120% in this case. Your map doesn't remember the last zoom setting. DM's map doesn't seem to have as much overlap of the icons, but perhaps that's because the background is transparent.

Display Issues

The text next to the progress meters is cut off or the end of the meter is cut off in the stats menu. See the orange rectangle at the bottom:

Stats menu.jpg

Lastly, there is some information missing for Oblivion XP in the stats menu. You should be able to see exactly what your progress is:

ObXP stats.jpg

Map Marker Overhaul

Ignore my previous comment. I was hitting the wrong key. However, the extra features aren't quite working. First, the icons for the different types of marker aren't showing up. TNO includes the icons on this menu so you can see what they look like:

mmo1.jpg

Second, there's no cursor for the text entry box and your typed text doesn't show up:

mmo2.jpg

As a result, the name is garbled. Also, when you ctrl+click on a map marker, the menu should be displayed. In NUI, it just asks if I want to fast travel to that location. I have my MMO.ini file set so that fast travel is just left click and the MMO menu shows on ctrl+click:

; Set how to invoke MMO and Fast Travel when clicking on a Map Marker
; 0: Fast Travel activated with left click, MMO with ctrl-click (default)
; 1: MMO activated with left click, Fast Travel with ctrl-click
; 2: MMO activated with left click, Fast Travel disabled
; 3: Fast Travel activated with left click, MMO with right-click
set tnoMMO.FastTravelMode to 0


; Set key used to add new markers while in game. Default is Insert (210)
; For letter keys, use:
; 16-25: Q-P
; 30-38: A-L
; 44-50: Z-M
; For full list, see http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/OnKeyDown
set tnoMMO.markerKey to 50 ; Stick with M

mmo3.jpg

Edited by AndalayBay

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I corrected some details in my previous post. One more compatibility issue is Supreme Magicka's raised limits.

I think that if you do create compatible menus for these mods, you release them as separate patch files. That way people can download NUI as is and then download the separate patch files if needed. I don't think you should package NUI as a BAIN package with all the patches included because that would mess up Wrye Bash's override functionality. The normal installation procedure for mods like this is:

  1. Install UI.
  2. Install mods that override UI elements, like Oblivion XP.
  3. Install patches that fix compatibility issues with the two mods.

I can help with the patches. I just haven't figured out your menu structure in terms of the location of all the elements and the user traits you need for your menus.

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tell people to pick the Vanilla sub-package for Display Stats. It does override NUI's Magic Popup menu. I might look at making it fully compatible with NUI.

NorthernUI itself is compatible; just don't let Display Stats overwrite its files.

Compatibility notes updated per your recommendations for the mods I've personally confirmed, including ObXP.

Quote

default zoom set in Dynamic Map base.ini not working.

Not a priority, but I can look into it at some point.

Quote

Base means that DM wants to modify the base map. It will insert those textures into the map.

I know. NorthernUI parses that INI file, reads its contents, and writes overlays to the world map. I tested it with Castle Dunkelore and that worked.

You say Roads and Trails and Roads of Cyrodiil aren't working? Do you know if this problem is specific to them, or are there other mods not showing up properly?

Quote

The text next to the progress meters is cut off or the end of the meter is cut off in the stats menu. See the orange rectangle at the bottom:

I need to make the spacing between bars flexible, and possibly even the bar widths themselves. Your aspect ratio is different from mine, which is why you're running into this problem when I didn't. I'll add that to my to-do list.

Quote

Lastly, there is some information missing for Oblivion XP in the stats menu. You should be able to see exactly what your progress is:

Added to my to-do list.

Quote

First, the icons for the different types of marker aren't showing up. TNO includes the icons on this menu so you can see what they look like:

Ugh... I know exactly what's going on. I figured it might be an issue when I first saw it, but then I got tunnel-visioned on the map/compass support.

While tNO MMO doesn't use UI functions to inject into the map, it does use them to tamper with the MessageMenu. There is no text entry box -- not a real one. They're trying to inject an element, manually check your keypresses, and update its text accordingly. (Why?! OBSE already offers access to the TextEditMenu!) I'll see what I can do, but I can't promise anything. More info below.

Quote

Also, when you ctrl+click on a map marker, the menu should be displayed.

When clicking on an existing map marker -- "the menu?" What menu?

Quote

One more compatibility issue is Supreme Magicka's raised limits.

Please explain? I'm not familiar with these mods. I don't play this game casually anymore. I'm primarily a Skyrim guy, but these days, I barely even play that casually because I spend so much time making stuff for it.

Quote

I think that if you do create compatible menus for these mods, you release them as separate patch files. That way people can download NUI as is and then download the separate patch files if needed.

In most cases, the problems stem from the OBSE and MenuQue UI commands requiring full and exact tile paths and offering no "find by name" alternatives, and at this point I feel justified in calling that a horrible design decision. Most of these mods have closed permissions and their authors aren't listed as active on the Nexus, so I can't modify their scripts; literally no authors had the foresight to put tile paths in a separate file, so I can't address things by replacing minor files. The primary way for me to fix these compatibility issues is to modify the structure of my menus to match what the scripts are accessing, when it's even feasible to do that. It's pointless to make those modifications in an alternate version of the menu file provided as an installation option; it just gives me more files to maintain, keep track of, and keep synchronized. It's better for me to just:

  • Modify the structure of my menus as invisibly as possible, such that specific mods can tamper with them but users otherwise notice no differences.
  • Tell people not to override my XML files.
  • If the mod offers separate scripts and XML files for different UIs via the BAIN system or whatever, tell people which options to pick, while reminding them not to override my menu files.

When it's not feasible to modify my menu files to the degree needed to make a particular mod function, then my options are:

  • Modify my DLL to carry out the mod's functions in its stead (i.e. Toggleable Quantity Prompts and the actually important features of Dynamic Map).
  • Don't support the relevant mod, or the relevant features of the relevant mod.

DLL modifications can be pretty simple or they can be fairly complex. TQP was extremely easy because it just auto-dismissed menus and such. Dynamic Map's overlays just write elements into the UI, which is absolutely something I can do from C++. TNO MMO is harder: IIRC custom map markers (and custom names for markers) are stored in script variables, so I'd need to be able to tamper with script variables and prevent the script engine from letting MMO scripts check keypresses lest they try (and visibly fail) to perform the very tasks I'm doing for them. Script data and execution isn't something I studied because, like, I just wanted to do the UI, and maybe some experimental stuff like gamepad support. I wasn't aware that there were so many mods that tampered with the UI, and I wasn't aware that the commands to do that kinda suck, so there wasn't a reason to develop nearly a year's worth of familiarity with the scripting internals, the way there was for UI engine internals.

Edited by DavidJCobb

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Ok, first I’ll grab some screenshots of the MMO stuff so you can see what I mean. If we do the fixes as patches, we don’t need to worry about permissions. I can try contacting TNO anyway. I don’t think I can overhaul his mods because even though I consider myself an excellent Legacy scripter (yes Oblivion’s scripting language has a name :P) his scripts are super complicated, perhaps overly so. To be fair, his mods were created before MenuQue offered all the features it offers now. I think he used templates so extensively because that was the only option at the time.

You have to let Display Stats replace your menu because your menu doesn’t have all the lines it needs. I checked. TNO added almost a dozen extra elements to display all the stats.

I’ll take a closer look at your post in a bit.

Edited by AndalayBay

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First, my apologies. I didn't realize you had found a way to incorporate Display Stats into your menus. I compared TNO's menu to yours and yours didn't have the extra elements, so I didn't think it would work. The order is different, but all the stats are there. Do we still need to have TNO's Display Stats? If so, then your compatibility section needs to tell people to install Display Stats FIRST, pick the vanilla sub-package and then install NUI afterwards. I strongly suggest you package up a readme with your mod with these instructions because people don't always read the description, at least not in full. This is not the norm for installing these mods, so a readme might help a bit.

Quote

 

Quote

Base means that DM wants to modify the base map. It will insert those textures into the map.

I know. NorthernUI parses that INI file, reads its contents, and writes overlays to the world map. I tested it with Castle Dunkelore and that worked.

You say Roads and Trails and Roads of Cyrodiil aren't working? Do you know if this problem is specific to them, or are there other mods not showing up properly?

The rest are fine. It's just the ones that are trying to inject the textures into the base map. I missed the screenshot of this issue earlier:

Missing bridges.jpg

That doesn't help much so I'll grab a screenshot from my other game instance and will post it separately. I can't switch until I've finished posting.

3 hours ago, DavidJCobb said:
Quote

Also, when you ctrl+click on a map marker, the menu should be displayed.

When clicking on an existing map marker -- "the menu?" What menu?

Here are the MMO menus. First showing the icon choices when you press the marker key:

MMO1.jpg

Then the naming menu, with its wonky non-existent text box:

MMO2.jpg

The new marker showing on the world map:

MMO3.jpg

If you ctrl+left click on an existing map marker, you'll see this menu:

MMO4.jpg

If you ctrl+click on your custom map marker, you'll see this menu:

MMO5.jpg

If you choose to delete your marker, you'll get this confirmation menu:

MMO6.jpg

To answer your question: the MMO customization menu. Sorry for my vagueness. :P

3 hours ago, DavidJCobb said:
Quote

One more compatibility issue is Supreme Magicka's raised limits.

Please explain? I'm not familiar with these mods. I don't play this game casually anymore. I'm primarily a Skyrim guy, but these days, I barely even play that casually because I spend so much time making stuff for it.

I'm not sure how to explain it. If you grab Supreme Magicka, the custom menus are included for Vanilla. The SM version of the menus has extra stuff that the other UI mods don't need because they have parameterized everything. The Darnified menus only need to have the enchantmentsetting_config.xml menu modified. enchantmentsetting_config.xml

Basically it looks like SM increases the limits by a factor of three.

3 hours ago, DavidJCobb said:

In most cases, the problems stem from the OBSE and MenuQue UI commands requiring full and exact tile paths and offering no "find by name" alternatives, and at this point I feel justified in calling that a horrible design decision. Most of these mods have closed permissions and their authors aren't listed as active on the Nexus, so I can't modify their scripts; literally no authors had the foresight to put tile paths in a separate file, so I can't address things by replacing minor files. The primary way for me to fix these compatibility issues is to modify the structure of my menus to match what the scripts are accessing, when it's even feasible to do that. It's pointless to make those modifications in an alternate version of the menu file provided as an installation option; it just gives me more files to maintain, keep track of, and keep synchronized. It's better for me to just:

  • Modify the structure of my menus as invisibly as possible, such that specific mods can tamper with them but users otherwise notice no differences.
  • Tell people not to override my XML files.
  • If the mod offers separate scripts and XML files for different UIs via the BAIN system or whatever, tell people which options to pick, while reminding them not to override my menu files.

When it's not feasible to modify my menu files to the degree needed to make a particular mod function, then my options are:

  • Modify my DLL to carry out the mod's functions in its stead (i.e. Toggleable Quantity Prompts and the actually important features of Dynamic Map).
  • Don't support the relevant mod, or the relevant features of the relevant mod.

DLL modifications can be pretty simple or they can be fairly complex. TQP was extremely easy because it just auto-dismissed menus and such. Dynamic Map's overlays just write elements into the UI, which is absolutely something I can do from C++. TNO MMO is harder: IIRC custom map markers (and custom names for markers) are stored in script variables, so I'd need to be able to tamper with script variables and prevent the script engine from letting MMO scripts check keypresses lest they try (and visibly fail) to perform the very tasks I'm doing for them. Script data and execution isn't something I studied because, like, I just wanted to do the UI, and maybe some experimental stuff like gamepad support. I wasn't aware that there were so many mods that tampered with the UI, and I wasn't aware that the commands to do that kinda suck, so there wasn't a reason to develop nearly a year's worth of familiarity with the scripting internals, the way there was for UI engine internals.

It's unfortunate that you chose a different path than vanilla for your basic menu elements. As you said, you didn't realize there were this many mods that overrode the menus. There are probably many more. I honestly don't know what to suggest at this point. If you restructured your menus, then you'd obviously have a better chance of working with many more mods. However most of the old Oblivion players have moved on and it's hard to say how many new players even know about these mods. I suggest waiting for feedback from other players before deciding on drastic changes. I really like your UI and I'd like to continue using it. Perhaps you could tell me what to do for the fixes I'd like and I can customize NUI for my play-through. However I don't think modifying your DLL is feasible. I'm not a C++ programmer and don't have the setup to compile it. I'm using VS, but it's for C# and it's the latest version.

I will try to contact TNO, but even if he responds, I'm not sure I can modify his mods!

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Here's the DM map showing the extra roads and bridges:

DM-ROC.jpg

Those are just a few of the roads and bridges. I didn't circle all of them. The key is that these changes are not based on a plugin. They are DDS files that modify the base map directly.

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