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1Mac

EngineBugFixes and multiple worldspace mods

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In chatting with qwertyasdfgh at TES Renewal, he mentioned that EngineBugFixes has fixed the issue of incompatible multiple worldspace mods, something that's come up on these forums before. Here's the section in the readme he pointed me to:

Quote

ExteriorCellTempObjectsLoadFix (v1.4)
-------------------------------------
Problem:     When moving to a new world space created by mod there is no ground and no static objects.
        Only doors, actors and trees are loaded.
Cause:        This problem happens if a new world space is defined in a master file that is not loaded in the same slot
        as it was in CS. All cells with visible-when-distant objects are affected.
        In a mod file, the visible-when-distant sub-group appears before the temporary objects sub-group.
        Both groups (if present) are loaded in one loop. When the loading function encounters the temporary objects sub-group
        header it verifies that the parent cell form ID specified in the header matches the form ID of the current cell that is
        getting loaded. Since the current cell's form ID is adjusted to the running game's load order the comparison to the form
        ID in the header (which is still in CS load order) will fail unless the running game's load order matches the load order
        at creation time. When the form ID comparison fails the entire temp objects sub-group is ignored.
Solution:    The fix adjusts the parent cell form ID from the group header to the running game's load order before comparing it to the
        current cell's form ID. This ensures that the temp objects sub-group always loads correctly.
Remarks:    This fix cannot help if a mod author makes the mistake of altering a world space defined in a master file when the mod
        itself is also a master file.

If he's right, I guess this means that, say, Morroblivion and Hammerfell R could be run at the same time, if EngineBugFixes is installed?

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Why can't multiple worldspace mods be run at the same time?  I did not know that.  However, reading the description posted, it sounds like the fix is more for a CS issue.  If in fact multiple worldspace mods can't be run at the same time, I don't think this will fix it.

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I'm not sure where the quoted conclusion came from but when I was actively playing Oblivion I had plenty of mods that added their own new worldspaces and never ran into that problem once.

The only thing that DID happen was that landscape LOD could fail to generate on anything that wasn't in the 01 slot.

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23 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

The only thing that DID happen was that landscape LOD could fail to generate on anything that wasn't in the 01 slot.

Sorry for being imprecise. That's the specific issue we were discussing. If we understood each other, qwerty was saying that EngineBugFixes has solved that problem (so moving the worldspace with TES4Gecko would also be unnecessary). Of course it's possible we weren't understanding each other very well!

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This was what you quoted:

 

On 3/1/2019 at 7:12 PM, 1Mac said:

When moving to a new world space created by mod there is no ground and no static objects.
        Only doors, actors and trees are loaded.

 

That sounds to me like the issue where one ESM edits the worldspace or interior cell contents of another and causes everything but the persistent references to disappear. That's an entirely different thing with the engine than just the distant landscape disappearing. This one isn't something Gecko can fix because it runs much deeper in the engine. If EngineFixes has fixed this that's great, but I kind of doubt it since it would require considerable effort to tear apart the form loading code.

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No, I think from the full quote that the fix is indeed supposed to be for in-game play, visiting a mod-added worldspace where the ESM is not in the 01 slot (Gecko's fix is to inject a whole load of the records so the game is tricked into thinking they're part of Oblivion.esm if I remember correctly). See at the very end, in Remarks it says that this does not help where one master edits another master's worldspace, which sounds like the different thing Arthmoor was referring to, where an ESM editing another ESM's worldspace wipes out all non-persistent cells and their content.

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I may have made a muddle of things here. The full context was whether Morroblivion conflicts with mods like Hammerfell (or I suppose, the Black Marshes), with the esm load order issue forefront in my mind. Vorians read is what I understood Qwerty to mean, but it's a bit over my head tbh. The OP was in part to see if I actually understood what he meant!

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Well my interpretation is the same as yours, but really you just need to go ask him to clarify!

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I didn't know there were two different issues. We have done the worldspace move thing with Black Marsh so the LOD will load properly. Once I split Black Marsh into an ESM and ESP, we won't be editing any other worldspace than our own. The Oblivion edits will be in the ESP.

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The issue which Arthmoor refers to I have experienced several times in the past, before CSE was released. Back when it was necessary to ESMify an ESP, to enable editing another ESP dependant on that ESP, if you then forgot to ESPify it again before loading the game, you'd experience this. I've never seen a released mod cause this however, it's only ever been my own forgetfulness.

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I also recall running into one obscure half finished quest mod that had a single cell edit in Tamriel and was an ESM file. That's all it took.

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